F4's

[AeroJoe]

The general consensus is the the F2/F4 are not the epitome of a bluegrass mandolin...but I still think that there should be a non-invasive way to hot-rod them up to bluegrass standards. I can remember in the '70's, several people that had them (Jesse McReynolds was one, I remember reading that in an old 'Frets' magazine), but had the tops removed and "new" F5 style tops were put on them. That's too invasive for my tastes. With today's luthiers and technology, I'd be really interested in hearing what could be done. Some of the old ones just have the most wonderful tone to them, like the one on Grisman/Rice's 'Tone Poems'. There's got to be a way to bring out more volume/presence/(insert your own adjective) to go with the tone some of them have. I think Red Henry's bridges may be a good start. I'd be really interested if anyone else has an idea.

[johnnymando]

Joe,I've got a 28F2 with a Stiver F5 top.The original top had been destroyed by somebody who took decorative pieces of wood,and covered it with clear.(the old top hangs on the wall).Anyway,I sent it to Lou last fall to have him install one of his tops.He elevated the fret board,the extension was long gone,and rebound the fretboard.Its got a great woody tone and is getting louder every day.Its a great conversation piece.With the value of F2/F4's today I can't see anybody doing this to a decent one,though.

[Tom C]

They may not be but, Dick Feegi(spelling?) who was with David Bromberg played an F2
and he sounded just fine.

[danb]

I think you might be able to get the sound you are looking for better from another instrument, without hot-rodding an old F2/F4.. alternatively, if it's the vibe/look you like, a modern copy could probably be better tuned to your sound requirements without losing the look?

One example is the Vega Cylinderback clones Pete at Rigel does. Internally they are carved.. and braced much differently to produce an "updated" sound, but on the outside they sure look like an old vega!

I think the F2 & F4 sound is pretty well developed and rounded, just not for Bluegrass really. Not enough growl etc. I'd reckon you'd get quite a bit of the growl you want for the same price as a vintage F2 without modifying something that's already cool, just for something else!

[John Flynn]

I guess my question would be, "Why would you want to do that?" IMHO, F4/F2's are among some of the best sounding mandolins ever made: Clear, bell-like sound, great sustain, etc. I see that as the trade-off for thier lack of punch and chop, and it is a good trade-off for just about any kind of music except bluegrass.

To me, it's like asking if there is a way to get a Martin D-28 souped up to play hard rock. Yeah, there probably is, but it would be easier and better to buy a cheap Strat. The least invasive thing to do in this hypothetical is trade the F-4 off on an F-5! I completely understand the quest for the one perfect mando for all types of music, but I don't think it's out there.

[mandogrouch]

jflynnStl, makes a good point, why mess with that cool F2/F4 tone? If you soup it up you may lose the very thing that gives them that charecteristic tone. I purchased a very beat up F2 3-pointer last year and my local luthier restored it to full functionality and along the way we gained some volume/projection without losing the vintage-ness of it. By that I mean he didn't mess with the top, change the bridge or tail piece etc. I was impressed, it can almost keep up with my Nug, way different tone though. It really helps to know a luthier than thouroughly understands mando-dynamics.

[Jim M.]

Eric Thompson plays an F4 in his bluegrass group Bluegrass Intentions. He also plays cajun, blues, and old time on it. I'd say, blindfolded, you'd be unable to tell it wasn't an F5.

If the purchase of an F5 isn't likely what about selecting a harder material for the nut and bridge? Bone? might give a little more bite. If you want a louder F4 speak to Gavin Baird.

[Izaac Walton]

Hi! #Just registered. #I've been a regular Cafe visitor for several months and have been following any discussions I could find regarding BRW mandolins. #Very impressed with all I have seen on Ben's website and heard here at the Cafe. #

I've been in contact with him by email for a few months now and am visiting with him this Sunday, 2/29. #Sure sounds like a nice guy. #Looking forward to meeting him and checking out his beautiful work. #If I decide to order, looks like I'll have to wait a bit!

[Lee]

Hi Isaac, welcome to the Cafe! Can't say that I heard if Ben's attempted an F2/F4 type instrument. Let us know what he has to say about it. Doubt he'll decline to give it a shot but would you want someone's first try?

[AeroJoe]

Mando Johnny...good point...I would not want to modify an old D-28 when a Strat would do the job...it's just that some of those F2/F4's are so close, by that I mean that some have the woof, even the bark...it was just a curiosity thing to find out what might possibly make them hit on a few more cylinders, enough to be a true vible alternative to the F5. (of which I own 2). That one on the G/R "Tone Poem"s sounds just great to me...I am guessing the elevated fretboard may have something to do with that.
Forgot to mention...I was at SPBGMA in Nashville several years back...some guy had an old F4 that had it's original top...but he had had someone /add/ two f-holes, these were bound along the inside edges... I did not know really what to think at first, 'til I stared at it long enough, asked about it, he handed it to me...and it was a real cannon. I would have thought so much top wood, well,...missing,... would have some sort of detrimental effect, but WOW...
Anyway, I appreciate all the answers...yeah, it's probably best to leave them as they are for those that appreciate them /as/ they are, I was just curious, because some of them sound like they have some hidden sound secrets inside (for lack of a better description) just waiting to be let loose...