Yikes! NO Side-of-Fingerboard Fret Markers -- a Challenge!!

[scgc.om]

Recently I've been playing a 1925 BlackFace Snake Head Gibson. There are NO side-of-fingerboard fret markers. Right away I note a BIG playing-style difference! Looking at my left hand position isn't helpful -- "Where am I??"

At first, I really didn't like the missing dots. I thought seriously of sticking markers on! Now I'm trying to use the blank sideboard to advantage -- i.e. play like a sightless person and just go by feel, and correcting 'mistakes' with an "I meant to do that!" slide.

Any thoughts on having no fret dots on fingerboard side?

[Jim Garber]

I have a few vintage Italian bowlbacks with no side dots. It was fine for the most part until I decided to play it in a classical workshop playing a solo. I normally do not need to look at the fretboard and can have a perfectly bare front of the board, but some dots, at least the 12th fret on the side really do help. I do agree that it prob is a good thing to see how far you can go with not having them. For the aforementioned solo, I took some small pieces of Post-Its® some of which fell off in use.

[Svea]

I can't think of any advantage to living without side dots, unless you just like torturing yourself. My question is why Gibson would intentionally skip the side markers.

You can now buy press-on inlays for really cheap. I've see some pretty hilarious ones where people are putting classic Taylor inlays on Martin guitars and such.

Svea

[Mike Bunting]

At first, I really didn't like the missing dots. I thought seriously of sticking markers on! Now I'm trying to use the blank sideboard to advantage -- i.e. play like a sightless person and just go by feel, and correcting 'mistakes' with an "I meant to do that!" slide.

Any thoughts on having no fret dots on fingerboard side?

Good for you. Also, you correct your mistakes by hearing them. Ears, ears, ears!

[TheBlindBard]

.... should I even say anything on this thread? :P

[MikeEdgerton]

I just add them to anything I buy that doesn't already have them.

http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Luthier/Technique/Structural/InlayDots/dots1.html

[foldedpath]

Well, you could just specialize in Irish trad and OldTime fiddle tunes. You never leave first position, and your fingers eventually find their way home.

And hey, if fiddlers don't need 'em.... ;)

[James Rankine]

My Jimmy Moon mandolin doesn't have side markers. Someone once asked him why he didn't put side markers on and he apparently said "don't you know where your fingers are". Then again he does have fretboard markers which rather undermines his argument (what exactly are they for?). To be fair it's not a mandolin that is designed for flying up the neck - you can hit a high B from first position what else do you want to do?

[TheBlindBard]

Exactly :P
Speaking from the point of view of a blind person. Doing it without sight is actually very nice, because I can multi-task. It's all in the muscle memory :)

[Mike Bunting]

Exactly :P
Speaking from the point of view of a blind person. Doing it without sight is actually very nice, because I can multi-task. It's all in the muscle memory :)
And ears!

[Jim Garber]

I suppose you are right that you can do without the visual cues if you stick with the same mandolin all the time. I have a feeling that fiddlers have to adjust ever so slightly to a different fiddler -- I pretty much play the same fiddle but have to adjust to each of my mandolins. Some have different scales and different neck lengths. There is a touch and feel of playing in 3rd position for instance on a violin where your heel makes contact with the upper bout. However it would be different say playing a Lyon & Healy A model with a cutaway vs. a bowlback vs. a teens Gibson vs. a hybrid A5 while switching off.

I may have to try this and, if so, will report back.

[stevedenver]

you can add them
or' you can work on muscle memory, ie knowing where the position is without looking

I have done this since playing live and making eye contact with the audience
and, I get it right at least 80%-which isn't enough

side markers, however, are dead critical to me above the 12th fret, and I added bits of bright red architects line tape to the 17, 19 and 21 positions-at tempo , that high, while ears are critical, so is accuracy-

(this tape is nice , it adheres pretty well, leaves no residue, I cut it short so as to have a Gretsch style thumb print on the face, and over the edge onto the side, for better visibility and more contact area- Up that high the tape fits snug between the frets and fills the space entirely

I couldn't do it by feel alone past the seventeenth-you need some point of reference so you know where to land

[Jim Adwell]

I've been playing stringed instruments for 50+ years and I don't pay any attention to the side markers, if they are there. I do look at the fretboard dots sometimes when I'm learning a new piece of music. I probably do this because many of the instruments I've played over the years haven't had side markers, and the dots or whatever on the fretboard are bigger and easier to parse when I'm concentrating on learning how to play something new.

[Jim Garber]

I don't look at the fretboard markers and don't really need them at all. At least the way I hold the mandolin I can't really see the fretboard markers. And the side markers are necessary only when playing in the upper positions as I noted above.

[MikeEdgerton]

I've been playing stringed instruments for 50+ years and I don't pay any attention to the side markers, if they are there. I do look at the fretboard dots sometimes when I'm learning a new piece of music. I probably do this because many of the instruments I've played over the years haven't had side markers, and the dots or whatever on the fretboard are bigger and easier to parse when I'm concentrating on learning how to play something new.

I'm just the opposite, I don't care if there are dots on the fretboard but if I look down I want to see the side dots.

[Steve L]

I have a Fluke ukelele which has a black molded plastic fretboard and black molded plastic frets which are rather difficult to see. I was wondereing what I might do about this when I noticed somone had left a sliver-inked Sharpie on my desk. Voila...side dots!

[Nevin]

I had to just look to confirm that my mandolin does not have side markers. My main instrument these days is upright bass so I guess I am used to having to make adjustments. The bass my teacher has me use for lessons has a slightly longer scale length than my bass. That took a bit of getting used to but less and less as time goes on.

[TheArimathean]

I've never even noticed the side dots on my mandolin... at least, while i'm playing. I do use the fretboard dots extensively though.

[bratsche]

The only one it's been an issue on is my 3/4 guitar converted to OM - it had no side dots. It's a much longer scale (22 3/4") than I'd ever played previously. I put a couple "reminders" at the octave and the fifth with White-Out, but the more I play it, the less I look at them. I don't ever look at the side dots on my mandolas or mandolins, regardless of the scale. To me, the muscle memory thing is all about feeling where the string length is divided in two (for the octave,) and then feeling the proportional divisions around that for the other frets. Playing in the dark (or with eyes closed and ears open) has paid dividends. I figured looking at anything was just a temporary thing - after all, I never look when I'm bowing.

bratsche

[G7MOF]

I drilled some tiny holes in the side of the finger board and put some plastic bristles from a white hair brush in the holes and cut them level with a Stanley knife, (It works great)!

[Bertram Henze]

Back when I played single-stop melody on mandolin and tenor banjo, I never looked at any dots. When I shortened the scale of my TB by sawing down the nut slots and making the first fret a zero fret, all the dots were suddenly wrong and still no problem. My playing style always involved gazing into a far distance absentmindedly (best scenario: playing at the beach, looking into the sunset, the waves providing a continuous thundering applause).
But when I got into OM playing and doublestops, there was an increasing demand for longrange hand movements up the neck, and the dots came into operation. If my OM had no dots, I'd have to have some workaround like G7MOF's.

[Randi Gormley]

I'm like a couple others -- I didn't even realize there WERE side dots, but I think the only mandolin I have with side dots is my Eastman and I just got that in 2011. I remember my teacher picking up my strad and asking where the side dots were and I just looked blankly at him. I still tend to look at the fretboard if I need to see where the high e is or whatever.

[Pasha Alden]

I can of course not see the markings, but if that was me, I would use colourless nail varnish to make tactile markings on mine. Of course I do not need to see. The nail varnish will of course be applied lightly as to not mar the instrument. As I said it would be colourless. I did that with my Crafter, just to orientate myself up the neck.

Best with that challenge!
Happy playing!

[Polecat]

I'm like a couple others -- I didn't even realize there WERE side dots

Same here. I'm sure thay are a help to some people, but I don't need them; given that at least half the time I'm playing I'm singing at the same time and even when practising I try to project into the "audience" rather than serenading my left hand, I soon learned to play "blind". I've never found slight differences in scale length to present any difficulty - switching between greater differences might be a problem, though - as I only try to play mandolin it's not one I face.

[pheffernan]

Any thoughts on having no fret dots on fingerboard side?

The lack of side dots has not bothered me on my 1924 BlackFace Snake Head Gibson. :) How do you like the rest of the instrument?

[Jeff Budz]

All of my instruments have had side dots except for my 20's Gibson A1 (also fiddle and double bass). I use the side dots extensively, never used the front dots, never really understood why they are necessary since they shouldn't be visible in proper playing position (unless you are looking in a mirror).

I've thought about adding to the old Gibson but I'm not sure it's a good idea as far as resale goes.

[JeffD]

I like the side dots, and use them a lot. I am gigantically inconvenienced when they are not there.

I would add them. Its a Gibson, not a museum piece. Add them.

No shame in using them, or in not using them. No virtue either way either.

[OU1]

Hmmmm....I guess I have never really paid much attention to it until you mentioned it on this blog....picked up my mandolin and I tried playing by using those...kinda threw me off a bit.

[Petrus]

All those blind guitar players (Willie McTell, Jeff Healey, Jose Feliciano, Doc Watson) seemed to manage okay. :cool:

[Ben Cooper]

My Girouard has them... I hadn't really tried using them. think I will give it a shot.....

[Jim]

My Strad O Lin doesn't Have them nor does the old Harmony I keep in my work Locker. I missed them at first but am quite comfortable not looking with the Strad now. Sometimes when learning a song from tab it's a pain.

[Bertram Henze]

All those blind guitar players (Willie McTell, Jeff Healey, Jose Feliciano, Doc Watson) seemed to manage okay. :cool:

You don't have to be blind to trust your own fretting-hand navigation. Anybody who learned to play an instrument by sight-reading standard notation had to have their eyes elsewhere.
Later, however, getting away from the dots on the sheet may turn your attention to the dots on the neck. You've got to look somewhere.

[bratsche]

You've got to look somewhere.

Looking at the insides of your eyelids is an excellent practice...
:cool:


bratsche

[Jim Garber]

I suppose many professional or seriously trained classical players -- string instruments, guitar and mandolin -- are capable of reading music and shifting without looking at some sort of reference on the neck of the instrument. I, for one, am not at least on mandolin. Many of us mortals are not used to that, tho, of course, we can train ourselves to do so.

[JeffD]

I use the fret markers, either on the fretboard or on the side of the neck, for all kinds of things, for playing up the neck, finding alternate harmonies or playing in other keys, moving a phrase up or down an octave. Lots of things. Its not like I am unable to engage others while I play, or read from the sheet music. I would be hard pressed to identify where it gets in my way at all.

Of all the things I need to work on to improve my playing, getting away from the fret markers is low on the list, if its on the list at all.

[JeffD]

All those blind guitar players (Willie McTell, Jeff Healey, Jose Feliciano, Doc Watson) seemed to manage okay. :cool:

My playing and technique is not overly influenced by what prodigies and genetic anomolies, sighted or not, can do. I mean, I look and listen and get helpful tips and tricks, but I know that unless I started 10 years before I was born I will never play at that level. If I were to emulate them the best thing I could do would be to start practicing 8 hours a day, which would severely cut into my gainful employment.