zero fret

[patches]

Hi all. Newbee here wanting to know plus and minus for the use of a zero fret below the nut. I am trying to build a flattop mandolin from Graham Mc'Donald's Project book (very good, by the way). I tried a couple of searches but didn't find anything.

[kkmm]

Zero fret reduces the work on the nut and as the nut slots are now simply for keeping the strings separated at fixed distance. The nut can be made in any material: plastic, bone, ebony and it does not affect the sound.
However, the neck would be a bit longer (1/8" for example) and it may look weird to many.
I built a tenor ukulele with zero fret last year and it gave me one more advantage: I can use low G or high G without worrying about the slot size for the G-string. G-string is quite famous on uke and .... ha..ha...

[patches]

Thanks, Did you use a larger fret for "zero"?

[tom.gibson]

There's no need to use a larger fret. The zero fret is just another fret.

Try searching the threads again: I remember there were some good examples of different ways of dealing with the nut or 'string spacer'.

[Jim Adwell]

The only downside to using a zero fret is that after a while the strings tend to make slight grooves in the fret, since it is always in contact with the strings with some pressure from them. On the other hand I have made a small number of instruments for my own use with zero frets (mostly guitars, but a couple of mandolins too) and haven't had any problems with zero fret wear so far, and I can always relevel the frets if it becomes a problem, I suppose.

[Bill Snyder]

Google site search on "zero fret" (https://www.google.com/#q=%22zero+fret%22+site:mandolincafe.com) on the Mandolin Cafe.

[Bertram Henze]

Roger Bucknall of Fylde has something to say (http://fyldeguitars.com/blog/zero_frets.html) about why he puts zero frets on all instruments.
I'd never again buy an instrument without one.

[Pete Jenner]

I'll never build an instrument without a zero fret. Unless asked to of course.

[Tavy]

Another zero fret fan here: especially for beginners it's much easier to get a really decent setup. Some folks can't get other the aesthetic of them, but that's their problem I guess ;)

[emitfo]

Another zero fret fan here: especially for beginners it's much easier to get a really decent setup. Some folks can't get other the aesthetic of them, but that's their problem I guess ;)

I've always liked the idea of a zero fret though more for consistency of sound than anything else, the article from Flyde was informative. I'm not aware of any major manufacturers that routinely use a zero fret for mandolin OR guitar. Do you know some or are you just speaking of custom made instruments? Do you know if it's expensive to retrofit a guitar or mandolin with a zero fret?

[Jacob]

From Zer0 Glide (http://www.zeroglide.com/) website:

"Why Didn't Someone Think of This Before?
Zero Glide Replacement Nut Systems borrow the "zero fret" concept to reduce string contact in the nut by 93%, increasing tuning stability, playability, and open string tone.
Easily installs in minutes with no permanent alteration to your fretted instrument whatsoever."

(I have no financial interest and no experience with this product.)

[tom.gibson]

I used a zero fret on the mandolin I've just finished and so far I think it's a very good option. It was certainly much simpler to get the action sweet on the lower frets than with a normal nut: it just takes care of itself. I also like the consistency of sound. And the appearance doesn't bother me. I used a black 'nut' very close to the zero fret and it looks quite smart, I think.

I agree with Jim (above) that the only downside is the likelihood of premature wear on the zero fret. I'll get back to you in a year on that one...

[Bertram Henze]

I agree with Jim (above) that the only downside is the likelihood of premature wear on the zero fret. I'll get back to you in a year on that one...

I'll have my frets #1 thru #7 replaced the third time shortly, but fret #0 was replaced only once in all that time.

[patches]

Thanks for all the reply's and information. The zero fret seems like the way to go and make the build a lot simpler. Except after checking it out I found that my finger board is a precut one and the end butts up against the nut. Maybe use the shorter scale. but my real mandolin, LM400, has the longer one. I'm having enough problems trying learn to play without adding more! Might check out the ZerO Glide

[Jim Adwell]

I'll have my frets #1 thru #7 replaced the third time shortly, but fret #0 was replaced only once in all that time.

I'm not going to worry about it, then. The "problem" appears to be theoretical only. ;)

[Tavy]

I used a zero fret on the mandolin I've just finished and so far I think it's a very good option. It was certainly much simpler to get the action sweet on the lower frets than with a normal nut: it just takes care of itself. I also like the consistency of sound. And the appearance doesn't bother me. I used a black 'nut' very close to the zero fret and it looks quite smart, I think.

I agree with Jim (above) that the only downside is the likelihood of premature wear on the zero fret. I'll get back to you in a year on that one...

I've just leveled and dressed my 18 month old main axe, and there was less wear on the zero fret than on frets 2-5. In fact I don't think there was any noticeable wear on the zero fret to be honest.

[kwerry]

I have used the zero fret on guitars.. It suffers from the same problem many changes to "traditional" building techniques, acceptance of something different.. Like many things there are pros and cons but it certainly works! a google search will bring up many discussions on various forums, some useful, some not.. :-)

Kerry

[John Kelly]

I too am a great believer in the zero fret. I use it almost always on my instruments and it makes really accurate string height at the nut a much easier task to achieve, as well as the bonus that the note is always coming from a metal surface, rather than bone or other material on the open strings.
As far as wear of the zero fret, the wear on the first seven frets is much more as the zero fret has no movement over it other than when tuning, whereas the other frets are constantly being pressed upon as we finger the notes, and this causes more wear, imo. A nut is generally softer than a metal fret, so if you worry about wear on the zero fret, there is probably more wear in the nut slots over time.

[patches]

OK, now you guys have me wanting this thing more than ever! How about a home version of the one Jacob mentioned. Lay the nut down,trim one side down to fingerboard level, put in a fret, shape string guides on the other side, and trim the fingerboard to the proper length. Or lesson learned and get a fingerboard that works the next time. Again many thanks for all of your help!

[bmac]

I don't have a mando with a zero fret but it seems to me that a zero fret would in the long run be of considerable benefit to the owner who never has to adjust the nut or pay to have it adjusted. We, who buy old seldom used instruments find that many have never been adjusted for comfortable and "in tune" play. A zero fret would have eliminated that problem many years ago.

[Bertram Henze]

There is a simple solution - well, kind of. Detune all your strings by a half step, put a capo on your first fret and call it "my new zero fret". You never looked at those dots on the fretboard anyway, did you? :grin:

If you think a capo looks ugly, you can saw the nut slots down into the fretboard instead :grin::grin:
(Kidding aside, this is exactly what I did a long time ago to a 19-fret TB of mine (now 18-fret); you can see it here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UzNbyK1qts))

[Marty Jacobson]

If you're looking for non-zero-nut options that offer similar advantages, you could stack two "nuts", one to act as the zero fret and the other as the string guide. This picture is from - I believe - Jim Garber's DeMeglio mandolin. I think it's a pretty good solution, and leaves open the possibility of using a standard nut in the future if that's what you decide. It's more work than a zero fret to get the height dead on, but probably less work than fitting a normal nut.

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