martin oddity - 1899

[billkilpatrick]

i'd seen photos of these but never heard one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBuRh...eature=channel

... he says it was made by c.f. martin - sept. 1899 - bought 37 years ago for $75. no disrespect meant but its visual impact is way more impressive than the audio - imho.

[Rod_Neep]

That instrument should have WAY more open sustain than that!
I had my hands on one once, and it rang on with a great wooomph!

Rod

[Jake Wildwood]

I wonder if it has to do with his play style... he seems to be muting the strings at the bridge.

[delsbrother]

Lefty?

[MikeEdgerton]

The strings could be dead as well.

[Mike Bromley]

So THAT's what happens when you water an F-4!

[Mike Buesseler]

Dead strings or not, I love this guy! His other videos are all delightful! Looks like a really fun act to watch....

[mrmando]

I think the webcam is flipping the image. There's one video of a band practice with three other guys who also appear to be lefties. Odds against that are pretty high.

[madphd]

well, howdy; here's some pix of "fred"- original box, note tail piece. the original bridge raised the strings to high, so every few years I carve a new one out of a block of ebony. consequently the sound of 'her' changes with each new one.I'm still not happy with the sound today, some buzz,not enuff resonance. so, back to the table saw. What I would like is any info that any body else might have on this model by c.f. martin. then I'll fill you all in on the rumors I've heard- Fred sounds a lot better live- come catch a show- thanks bill for the link to this site-- da Prof p.s.-we're all leftys!! nyuk,nyuk.

[billkilpatrick]

well, howdy; here's some pix of "fred"- original box, note tail piece. the original bridge raised the strings to high, so every few years I carve a new one out of a block of ebony. consequently the sound of 'her' changes with each new one.I'm still not happy with the sound today, some buzz,not enuff resonance. so, back to the table saw. What I would like is any info that any body else might have on this model by c.f. martin. then I'll fill you all in on the rumors I've heard- Fred sounds a lot better live- come catch a show- thanks bill for the link to this site-- da Prof p.s.-we're all leftys!! nyuk,nyuk.

you might want to post any queries you have about this spectacular looking beast of yours over to the "looking for information about mandolins" section of the forum, under "miscellaneous" heading. terrific photo - thanks for the closeup - bill

[Mike Herlihy]

well, howdy; here's some pix of "fred"- original box, note tail piece. the original bridge raised the strings to high, so every few years I carve a new one out of a block of ebony. consequently the sound of 'her' changes with each new one.I'm still not happy with the sound today, some buzz,not enuff resonance. so, back to the table saw. What I would like is any info that any body else might have on this model by c.f. martin. then I'll fill you all in on the rumors I've heard- Fred sounds a lot better live- come catch a show- thanks bill for the link to this site-- da Prof p.s.-we're all leftys!! nyuk,nyuk.

Howe-Orme

[Rick Turner]

Why does anyone identify that as either a Martin or a Howe Orme? It's not either. I don't know what it is, but I know it's not as identified. Check with Lowell Levinger of Players Vintage Instruments.

Between Lowell and myself, we've owned the largest collection of Howe Ormes, at one time having over 25 between the two of us...

[Jim Garber]

Why does anyone identify that as either a Martin or a Howe Orme? It's not either. I don't know what it is, but I know it's not as identified.

Sorry, Rick. it may not be a Howe-Orme, of which you are the expert, but this one was made by Martin for C.H. Gaskins & Company of Shamokin, PA. There is a reference on page 199 of Johnson and Boak's new Martin Book (volume 2).

I have attached Gaskin's patent from 1895.

There is at least one other, plainer than Jess's. Elderly had it for sale and you can see it here. I believe that that one is the very same one pictured in the Martin book.

[Squire]

Some other shots.

[barney 59]

Jim Garber seems to have nailed it. Has a headstock very reminiscent of a Martin-- it's a pretty distinctive design and I'd have to lean toward Martin--but mostly if it is a Martin --it would probably be stamped "Martin" either on the back of the headstock or have a inside brand --they were pretty consistant about that-- they were Martin after all and weren't building for the "trade" like alot of others were. They seemed to brand their name on instruments that they made for others, such as Wurlitzer and even more recently the Schoenbergs still have a C.F. Martin brand inside. The inlayed pickguard is similar to a Howe Orme but that in itself isn't enough --ornate inlayed pickguards were all the rage it seems in late 1900's and you see that on alot of instruments. They are often so similar I've often wondered if the were maybe supplied by an outside manufacturer like tuners or tailpieces were.
"Banjonana" beat me out on ebay for a Howe Orme guitar once. It turned out to be Lowell "Banana" Levinger.

[Squire]

Jim Garber seems to have nailed it. Has a headstock very reminiscent of a Martin-- it's a pretty distinctive design and I'd have to lean toward Martin--but mostly if it is a Martin --it would probably be stamped "Martin" either on the back of the headstock or have a inside brand --they were pretty consistant about that-- they were Martin after all and weren't building for the "trade" like alot of others were. They seemed to brand their name on instruments that they made for others, such as Wurlitzer and even more recently the Schoenbergs still have a C.F. Martin brand inside. The inlayed pickguard is similar to a Howe Orme but that in itself isn't enough --ornate inlayed pickguards were all the rage it seems in late 1900's and you see that on alot of instruments. They are often so similar I've often wondered if the were maybe supplied by an outside manufacturer like tuners or tailpieces were.
"Banjonana" beat me out on ebay for a Howe Orme guitar once. It turned out to be Lowell "Banana" Levinger.

It was made by Martin for C.H. Gaskins & Company of Shamokin, PA. as stated before.
Here are the stamps.

[billkilpatrick]

here's another, more recent video from this guy. i still think the sound's a bit thin - better for chords than melody - but its looks alone make it something special:

[Jim Garber]

One of these days, Jess, who grew up in my town, has threatened to come with Fred, so I will have a hands on experience. I will report back when that happens.

[madphd]

well, that's right-- I, 'Fred' really are a C.F. Martin---© 'sept'99--- and I will be in Jims area oct 10-11, to see more of me now, check out-- http://www.youtube.com/user/jessyoungquest --subscribe and leave mssgs there--- thanks--- Fred--

[Jim Garber]

Mandolin Brothers visited the Martin factory and posted a shot from the museum. In it you can see the other horned mandolin.

[madphd]

and the plaque says-"unique, one of a kind"-- there right-- 'FRED' has more detail--and class--

[Jim Garber]

Hey Jess:
I did play Fred when I saw you a few months ago. I would suggest that you have a good luthier look at him, rather than keep cutting new bridges. Like many fine elderly instruments, it may be time for a neck reset or at least to check some of the braces which might have come unglued. I would hate to see this treasure (your trademark) implode plus I think you could improve the sound and playability. Just my dos centavos, amigo.

[madphd]

just read your 'dos centovos'--- and, your right, Jim. Now where can I get the cash and who can I trust to do the work?

[allenhopkins]

just read your 'dos centovos'--- and, your right, Jim. Now where can I get the cash and who can I trust to do the work?

So, sticking in my oar again: Ithaca Guitar Works in Ithaca, Bernie Lehmann or Dave Stutzman here in Rochester. "Fred" is a marvel!

[billkilpatrick]

i've had two instruments resurrected (!) by a luthier and it was worth every penny - madphd-ette won't mind ... will she?