Bowlbacks of Note

[Ali]

My newest acquisition - a copy by Martin Bowers of my VINNY (1764 Vincentius Vinaccia mandolin). The copy has been christened Young Vinny and was picked up today!

[vkioulaphides]

How VERY pretty! I wish the newborn health and happiness in its "mother's" loving hands.

Cheers,

Victor

[mandoisland]

Hello Ali!
That's a real gem! Congratulation!
Michael

[Jim Garber]

Wonderful Ali, a true BBON! Will you keep Vinny, Senior more at home and take Junior on the road? Did Martin copy the tone as well as the ornamentation? How does Junior sound?

Here is a small pic of Senior (from your site).

[Jim Garber]

On one hand, I envy you; on the other hand, you're nuts; on the third hand, I envy you again!

I am nuts... now I am driving myself insane trying to figure out how to string it. Victor and I got roped into playing mandola parts for the Aonzo rendition of the Brandenburg 3. Do you think it would sound right if I played in in octave tuning? Last year I played it on the mandolin (transposed of course) so this would only be one octave lower but, I assume the same notes as the mandola/viola part. That way, I could also just order the Calace strings and be done with it.

[margora]

"Do you think it would sound right if I played in in octave tuning? Last year I played it on the mandolin (transposed of course) so this would only be one octave lower but, I assume the same notes as the mandola/viola part. That way, I could also just order the Calace strings and be done with it."

Of course, it will be fine. If you octave string your mandola the lowest course is G and the highest is E. For obvious reasons you will always be able to play the lowest note in the viola part. What may be a bit more difficult is that you will have to play some passages well up the neck whereas, if you strung CGDA, you will be in first-third position more or less all the time. It is conceivable (I wouldn't know for sure without looking at the score) that there are notes in the viola part that would really be too high on an octave-strung mandola to sound well; but you can always play such parts an octave down if that is the case.

BTW, I play the mandola parts in the PMO on an octave-strung instrument of the same scale length as your new Calace. It works extremely well for me (keeping the above in mind).

[Eugene]

Very nice, Ali! Congrats. Have you thought about experimenting with period strings from NRI? They are different, but I think they're fun.

[Jim Garber]

Thanks, Bob. I think I will prob opt for the CGDA tuning as the viola fingering makes more sense for some of the more difficult parts. The trouble is trying to fogure out the proper gauge. I figure I will extrapolate to the lighter bowlback strings on a mandolin and get a custom set of single strings to try.

[Neil Gladd]

My newest acquisition - a copy by Martin Bowers of my VINNY (1764 Vincentius Vinaccia mandolin). The copy has been christened Young Vinny and was picked up today!

Beautiful! If I ever get my 18th century Vinaccia copy playable, we could play duets!

For those of you that missed it, I recently posted photos of my entire mandolin menagerie in the Groupings thread in Post a picture of your mandolin.

[Ali]

Very nice, Ali! #Congrats. #Have you thought about experimenting with period strings from NRI? #They are different, but I think they're fun.

Hi everyone,
Thanks for the comments....firstly....Eugene....I am using fairly authentic strings......they are brill.....Aquila strings......gut E's and A's and copper wound floss for D's and G's.....apparently all the rage with lute players....sund fntastic and much "neater sounding" than plain brass A's or twised brass lower strings.....I know there are various views on this subject but my thoughts are simply tht if I ere a musician around a that time, I would have experimented with all possible strings that would have been available....well, all the ones I am using would have been......also using a quill.....
And to answer Jim about how Junior sounds.......FANTASTIC.....Martin was very worried bout that aspect......but I am very pleased indeed......
And to answer the other question (Jim again I think)....Old Vinny is going to go and live (on loan) in a mandolin collection in a museum in London - hopefully the one housed at the Royal College of Music opposite the Royal Albert Hall.........where he belongs.....in a nice controlled environment.....on display to anyone who is interested an safe from the rigours of touring and cold churches!
Junior will become my touring instrument and the one I play. I think it is the best compromise all things considered. I am very pleased anyway.
All the best
Ali

[billkilpatrick]

a bowlback, yes ... but not a mandolin: (as seen on france ebay - initial asking price €500)

[billkilpatrick]

back:

[Alex Timmerman]

Hi Ali,

That's a very nice looking new one!
Congrats to you and the maker.

Greetings,

Alex

[Linda Binder]

Wow! #Congratulations Ali! #Young Vinny is quite the stunner. #That he sounds as good as he looks is very exciting.
Its wonderful that the original (1764!) VINNY will be safe and on public display. #Its clear you've been a great caregiver and champion of a rare and important instrument.

[Bob A]

Lovely new old mandolin. I'm pleased that the ancient one will have a safe place to reside; hopefully it'll make music from time to time.

Having a few more than ordinarily ornate mandolins myself, I'm somewhat surprised that you'd order a concert instrument with that level of ornament. I tend to avoid playing the very fancy ones lest I lose a piece of inlay, or otherwise mess up something that'd be difficult to replace/repair. Still, being newer and with access to the maker would tend to inspire confidence, I imagine.

[Neil Gladd]

What do we think of this instrument? The tailpiece and tuning machines certainly aren't from 1824, but the body is unusual. It also has a scalloped fingerboard, and looks like the headstock may have been modified.

[Eugene]

The soundboard looks like a later 19th-c. mandolino Lombardo or Toscano to me. #Of course, a scalloped fingerboard is typical to mandolino Lombardo. #I don't see a cant, but I also don't see a "footprint" that I would expect if a fixed bridge had been removed. #Gaetano Guadagnini's shop is well-known for its guitars, but I do not know if he was an early producer of mandolini Lombardi or mandolins of any type (Alex?). #I don't know if the soundbox is a legit Lombardo (although I think not likely Guadagnini), and this was later modified, or if this was produced by a later mandolino Lombardo-making shop as a Neapolitan-like instrument hobbled together on their more typical soundbox. #In any case, I do not believe this piece is to be taken at face value.

I've had some correspondence with Maccari & Pugliese in the past. #The bottom of this page pictures an 1830 guitar by Gaetano Guadagnini.

[Eugene]

My own suspicion is that the label is either a copy stuck into an instrument in which it does not belong, or that it's an old label scavenged from something else and placed into an instrument in which it does not belong.

[Neil Gladd]

My own suspicion is that the label is either a copy stuck into an instrument in which it does not belong, or that it's an old label scavenged from something else and placed into an instrument in which it does not belong.

That was my first choice, the second choice being that the instrument had been modified after it was built.

[Jim Garber]

From first glance the headstock resembles my 1921 Calace and it looks like there was some splicing in that contrasting wood and pearl dot on the back of the neck near the headstock.

I think also Lombard style body with some reptilian dentistry involved.

I see, from my files, that this was on eBay with the same pics in March of 2006. Here is what that seller said:

The Guadagnini family is known as was one of the greatest luthier-families in history. In modern times now some of their instruments have reached sale prices as high as one million dollars. Lara St. John praises her Guadagnini violin: There is a depth and a strength to it which I have never felt on any Stradivarius, or other violin. So many of todays world's best performers like Vanessa Mae, Julia Fischer, Davis Juritz, Sophie Jaffe , I Musici play Guadignini instruments. Also worth mentioning some of 19th century violinists like Henri Vieuxtemps, Henryk Wieniawsky, Hubert Leonard....

Here we have a genuine Torino mandolin by Gaetano Guadagnini, made in 1824, for an auction. The mandolin features the handwritten label: Gaetano Guadagnini fece in Torino nellanno 1824 in Piazzo S. Carlo. The former owner has had her in his family for about 60 years. I received the following informations from him: "I've brough the mandolin to a famous lutemaker Mr. Bellafontana that was the maintenence - responsable of the Paganinis' violin, the "cannon", for the annual competition in Genova. He said that probably at the end of 1800, somebody make some light work on it, probably the keys because the original where like the violin, but the test on paint, result positive like the original."

Condition: very good unrestored condition. There is one very old minor hairline split on top at the right, when you look at it, in the midth between fretboard and edge. This split is very old, save and stable, could get fixed but not necessarily. The neck is very straight and the fretboard is in very good condition.

Woods: spruce top with inlaid wooden pickguard, rosewood back, mahagony neck with inlays from ebony and rosewood, rosewood fretboard.

Unusual is the originally varnished fretboard with 22 fluted frets, very comfortable to play.

Sounding: The sounding is extremely strong like modern german camp mandolins (even better), not comparable to neapolitanian style mandolins. The playability is very good because the neck is very straight and the string action is low. The strings are new Thomastik Infield medium, 50$.

I recommend this mandolin to the advanced soloist, who is looking for an instrument with enormous sound qualities and a great historical background.

More later...

[Jim Garber]

Interesting also is the fact that, according to my sources (Henley, for one) the two Gaetano Guadagnini's both worked in Torino but neither were working in 1824.

[Jim Garber]

Here is a Monzino Lombard with similar soundhole and scratchplate.

[Eugene]

Much more decorated, but here's another similar mandolino Lombardo by Rocco (1897, Genova):

[Eugene]

My newest acquisition - a copy by Martin Bowers of my VINNY (1764 Vincentius Vinaccia mandolin). The copy has been christened Young Vinny and was picked up today!

...And this looks like another excellent candidate for the early mandolin eye candy page. Do you think Mr. Bowers would be amenable, Ali?

[Neil Gladd]

What do we think of this instrument? The tailpiece and tuning machines certainly aren't from 1824, but the body is unusual. It also has a scalloped fingerboard, and looks like the headstock may have been modified.

It sold for $1000. I assume that the buyer was NOT someone from this board.