Playability?

[yankees1]

Since I have never played any mandolin except my Eastman 505, what factors make one mandolin more playable than another? Does this mean that one instrument is easier to finger? I have read several posts that stated that Collings MT mandos are very playable and play like butter! Eastmans do come with smaller frets so will this make these mandos more difficult to play?

[Kevin Briggs]

Yankees,

This is a great question. I'm no expert, but I have thought about your question a well, and have listened attentively to people who "know what they are talking about."

First, A lot of what makes a mandolin playable comes from the responsiveness of the mandolin. This varies from one instrument to the next, and has something to do with the top carving, possibly the top wood, but definitely the coordination of the hundreds of little pieces of wood that make up a mandolin. Sam Bush describes his mandolin as "tight," but I think Chris Thile would say the opposite. Both are great mandolins. They just feel different, based on these comments.

Second, there is no way to overstate the importance of a great setup. The bridge should be in the perfect spot, the truss rod adjusted just right, the nut slots at the correct depth, andthe action set up in such a way that it aids in playability in tone (these two concepts can co-exist). Anyone who has had a great setup will say that it made all the difference in the world regarding tone and playability. Choice of strings is essential too. I decided to use EXP75s this time around and they are too much. They have a huge sound, but they are tighter r=than what I want. I would rather get a sweeter sound with more playability using EXP74s.

Finally, there is acceptance. Some mandolins will never be as playable, despite the setup, choice of strings, or whatever. My old custom Bitteroot was a great mandolin, but it never played easily. I got multiple setups by different people, lowered the action, lowered the string tension, etc., an it was always very tight. It was also very loud, but I paid the price of playing a tight mandolin.

My custom Fern is just the opposite. I can lower the action to a point where it is completely playable and sounds incredible. zi also forgot to mention the neck. A big neck causes me problems, so I have a custom neck on my Fern.

An Eastman is a good mandolin and has been described by Chris Warner as being the best value on the market. You owe it to yourself to see what kind of potential it has. Find a good luthier nearby and have him work on it. It will probably cost about $40 - $70 for a professional setup. Any less than $40 and I would question the knowledge of the luthier. I recently called a place about a setup and the person told me it would cost $15. I was like, "uh, no." Price does not determine quality, but it reflects a person's attention to detail, because a properly priced service shows the person doing the service did his or her research.

Get the setup, play it for another month. If you don't think it is worth it after that, go shopping. That's my $0.02.

[Chris Biorkman]

Phoenix mandolins are the most playable out there. Easy to fret and a neck like butter.

[Mike Bunting]

That's a fairly broad generalization. I'd say both my Stanley and Collings meet that criterion as do my friend's Ellis, and another friend's Weins and Reischman's Loar, to name a few.

[Chris Biorkman]

Have you ever played a Phoenix? It's a broad generalization, but I assure you that it's spot on.

[Mike Bunting]

Have you ever played my Stanley or JR's Loar? I'm sure that Phoenixes are very playable.

[tburcham]

Originally Posted by Chris Biorkman

Have you ever played a Phoenix? It's a broad generalization, but I assure you that it's spot on.

I have...and I agree with you totally!

[Chris Biorkman]

Haha, no.

[Chris Biorkman]

Haha, no. But I have played an Ellis and my old MF-5 and the Phoenix wins in that department hands down. Are you offering?

[John Flynn]

It's dependent on what you get used to, the structure of your hands and your preferences. I like a fat, rounded neck, slightly wider than normal, with a radiused fretboard and big frets. Just for my preferences, I think my Rigel is the most playable mandolin I have ever tried. But I know there are other people who find the opposite more playable: Thin triangle neck, flat board, thin frets. I have a Parsons flat-top with those characteristics and even though I don't like that profile, I actually wind up playing it more the Rigel, because I like the tone better.

The only really independent variable, as people have said, is setup. I would take a well set up mandolin, with any profile, over any poorly set up instrument. Beyond that, I would not worry excessively about playability. It's more about you adapting to the instrument rather than the other way around.

[yankees1]

Originally Posted by John Flynn

It's dependent on what you get used to, the structure of your hands and your preferences. I like a fat, rounded neck, slightly wider than normal, with a radiused fretboard and big frets. Just for my preferences, I think my Rigel is the most playable mandolin I have ever tried. But I know there are other people who find the opposite more playable: Thin triangle neck, flat board, thin frets. I have a Parsons flat-top with those characteristics and even though I don't like that profile, I actually wind up playing it more the Rigel, because I like the tone better.

The only really independent variable, as people have said, is setup. I would take a well set up mandolin, with any profile, over any poorly set up instrument. Beyond that, I would not worry excessively about playability. It's more about you adapting to the instrument rather than the other way around.

Good point about adapting to the instrument! Frets on Eastman 505 do seem small as I was told before buying but I havn't played on any other mando. I now think that larger frets would be more playable!

[pickloser]

Phoenix mandolins are the most playable out there. Easy to fret and a neck like butter.

Since it makes me crazy to take my Phoenix into situations where the damage potential is higher, I've been playing every mando I can get my hands on (there's lots in NC), looking for a second mando that approached the playability of my Phoenix. I found one; it was a Phoenix.
I concede the possibility that other mandos exist that could be as playable.

I believe that flatwound strings make any mando easier on one's hands. Give 'em a try. (If you want to play all day, try flatwounds on a Phoenix. Such a pleasure.)

Oh, but next time you're hanging with JR, tell him I'll trade my more playable Phoenix for his Loar.

[250sc]

I've played many Phoenix mandos (I live close to Elderly) so I guess I'm qualified to say that "Phoenix mandolins are the most playable out there." is a generalization and could very well be disputed.

Playability can be whatever you personally like. Bill Monroe seemed to find that playability for him was high action and Mike Marshall reportedly likes low action for best playability.

[OldSausage]

I have owned all kinds of cheap mandos, but I've never had one I couldn't play all day.

[Douglas McMullin]

Originally Posted by Chris Biorkman

Have you ever played a Phoenix? It's a broad generalization, but I assure you that it's spot on.

I own a Phoenix, and while I absolutely love it, I am not sure I can support the claim of Phoenix being the top dog when it comes to playability. I think many mandolins share that title; my Collings MT is every bit as good a player as my Phoenix, and I have played many others that were equally good. Also, one persons perfect playability may not be the same for another.

[JeffD]

Originally Posted by OldSausage

I have owned all kinds of cheap mandos, but I've never had one I couldn't play all day.

Yea but weren't some of them more playable than others?

I have only once picked up a mandolin I couldn't play all day - the neck had a warp to it so that the action was way too high, and it hurt to play.

That being said, even among the mandolins I own some are more playable than others.

[Rob Gerety]

I agree with Kevin that a good set up is huge - it can transform an instrument. I have seen this time and time again with my guitars, and now with my mandolin. Personally I find that I am able to adjust to almost any neck size and shape within reason. These things may cause some initial discomfort or difficulty but in my experience unless you are dealing with something really extreme you can adjust. Also, I try to cultivate my ability to play most any neck. Wide necks are becoming popular but even with my limited experience I can see and feel that there are both advantages and disadvantages to wide and narrow necks - again, you just have to adapt to whatever you have.

Bottom line - get a real good set up before you judge the playability of any mandolin or guitar.

[CES]

Yankees1,

Playability, in my opinion, is a set of features, many objective but some subjective, that determine how good/easy a mandolin plays for you. Kevin hit on a lot of those features above, but it's really a very individual entity. I've discovered, after finally playing a range of mandos over the years and recently buying a Flatiron pancake, that I like a little bit thicker neck profile and don't mind slightly larger frets. My first mando is a Kentucky 675-s, which, like your Eastman, has a skinny neck a thinner fretwire. I still like the way my Kentucky sounds, but it's not very playable at all, and not just because of the neck size and frets. The neck angle is slightly off and there's a slight hump where the neck joins the body, which makes setting the action where I like it (sissy-boy low) impossible without significant work that would cost as much or more than the mando originally cost me...though, I've been considering experimenting with it since I don't play it much anyway and would like to learn some luthiery. I also had no idea I liked a different neck profile and frets until I tried them, and blissfully banged on my high-actioned Kentucky for a couple of years before buying another mando, so in that way, I guess, ignorance is bliss. Now I know what I prefer and won't be settling on future purchases.

I also agree, though, that with a good set-up pretty much anything can be made playable, at least in first position, and would rather play a well set-up Rover than a poorly set-up "insert favorite brand here." (Of course, if given the choice between the two I'd take the better mando and pay for a good set-up ).

Really the only way to know what you like is to try a bunch of mandos. For me this took a while, b/c I didn't know where to look...

[JeffD]

The neck shape does play a big part, how it fits your hand.

[250sc]

"The neck shape does play a big part, how it fits your hand"

It CAN play a big part if your sensitive to that type of thing. Personally, I've played lots of instruments (many old instruments have hefty (louieville slugger) necks that only took a couple of minutes to get used to. It's like playing an instrument with angled frets. (sorry I forgot the name for that). I just get used to it and concentrate on playing.

YMMV but that comes back to the original false premiss that there is a universally accepted standard for "playability".

[Rob Gerety]

Originally Posted by 250sc

"The neck shape does play a big part, how it fits your hand"

It CAN play a big part if your sensitive to that type of thing. Personally, I've played lots of instruments (many old instruments have hefty (louieville slugger) necks that only took a couple of minutes to get used to. It's like playing an instrument with angled frets. (sorry I forgot the name for that). I just get used to it and concentrate on playing.

YMMV but that comes back to the original false premiss that there is a universally accepted standard for "playability".

Fan fret. I agree with this. Also the idea that narrow is not as playable as wide is not my experience at all.

[OldSausage]

Originally Posted by JeffD

Yea but weren't some of them more playable than others?

I have only once picked up a mandolin I couldn't play all day - the neck had a warp to it so that the action was way too high, and it hurt to play.

That being said, even among the mandolins I own some are more playable than others.

Oh yes, some certainly were more playable than others.

[D C Blood]

Playability is strictly in the eyes (or hands) of the player. I've had some mighty fine mandolins in my oh, so many years of pickin'...some of the best ones I've had didn't suit me for "playability", no matter what I tried to do to change it. I've played peoples' Loars, Gils, and the like, and felt very uncomfortable with them because to me they didn't have the playability I like. My Silver Eagle (Angel) has it, and the Horner I had just before had it. That's one of those things that is hard to say what it is, but you know it when you have it...

[pager]

In answer to the original question, I play an Eastman and a Collings. I can't say the Collings plays any better than the Eastman. And I have played several Phoenix mandos and for me, I can't say they play any better than my Collings.

jillian

[JeffD]

Originally Posted by 250sc

I just get used to it and concentrate on playing.

I have had that experience many times. Getting used to a fretboard extension that is right under the sweet spot. Getting used to a high action. Too wide a neck. What ever. For eveyone its dfferent.


But there are times when you pick up an unfamiliar mandolin and there is nothing to get used to. Its like you have been playing it all your life. It just matches your hands and responds, almost works with you.

Certainly what that combination of features is that makes some mandolins so effortless to play is going to be different for each player. And no one mandolin is going to be rated high in playability by everyone.

But certain mandolins are going to be rated as more playable, by more people, than others. While there will not be complete agreement - there will certainly not be complete disagreement ethier.