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Thread: Cumberland Mandolin Bridge Verses Siminoff Mandolin Bridge

  1. #1
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    Default Cumberland Mandolin Bridge Verses Siminoff Mandolin Bridge

    Anyone compare these two bridges

    I've read that the Siminoff Bridge is made with Gaboon ebony

    Thanks for any replies

    http://parts.siminoff.net/bridge-man...-hardware.aspx

  2. #2
    Registered User Tom Cherubini's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cumberland Mandolin Bridge Verses Siminoff Mandolin Bridge

    Looks like a very nice bridge. It's very black, and while we all know that ebony is black, because it's so evenly black you have to wonder whether it's dyed.
    So chi sono.

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    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cumberland Mandolin Bridge Verses Siminoff Mandolin Bridge

    Often is dyed.
    writing about music
    is like dancing,
    about architecture

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    Default Re: Cumberland Mandolin Bridge Verses Siminoff Mandolin Bridge

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAet8eDnNDM

    Gaboon ebony wood is the most pure black of the lot, but can have occasional chocolate brown seams, especially in the middle of larger chunks. You can pay significantly more for wood that is guaranteed to be pure black throughout. The sap wood is a light gray offering extreme contrasts in colour that can add dramatic flare to small turning projects like pens and bottle stoppers.

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    Astro 

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    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cumberland Mandolin Bridge Verses Siminoff Mandolin Bridge

    [ Resource management being, larely, political decisions , these days, It may be off topic.. ]

    Q: How is the sustaianability of logging, cutting, and selling that Going , these days?

    so hard a wood cannot be all that fast growing ?




    Here Pana-Max ships full of Fir logs leave for China every fortnight, or so.
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    Registered User Doug Edwards's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cumberland Mandolin Bridge Verses Siminoff Mandolin Bridge

    Gabon Ebony is getting harder and harder to find and the price keeps increasing. It never was cheap to begin with. Rarely do I find pure black at a cost I can live with.

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    Default Re: Cumberland Mandolin Bridge Verses Siminoff Mandolin Bridge

    Anyone else

  9. #8
    richard freeman richardfree's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cumberland Mandolin Bridge Verses Siminoff Mandolin Bridge

    I have bought both in the last couple of months,I put one on a Loar A model,the cumberland, did not notice much difference,I bought the Siminoff, and put it on my larrivee f model and it really helped. I like them both, the Siminoff is thinner on the top, and is really a nice bridge.I'm sure your mandolin would like either. Richard

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    Default Re: Cumberland Mandolin Bridge Verses Siminoff Mandolin Bridge

    Quote Originally Posted by richardfree View Post
    I have bought both in the last couple of months,I put one on a Loar A model,the cumberland, did not notice much difference,I bought the Siminoff, and put it on my larrivee f model and it really helped. I like them both, the Siminoff is thinner on the top, and is really a nice bridge.I'm sure your mandolin would like either. Richard
    Good to know richardfree, so do you think the Siminoff sounded better because of they use Gabon Ebony ???

  11. #10
    Registered User Doug Edwards's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cumberland Mandolin Bridge Verses Siminoff Mandolin Bridge

    I've used quite a few of Steve's (CA) bridges. They are all top shelf.

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    Default Re: Cumberland Mandolin Bridge Verses Siminoff Mandolin Bridge

    I believe the only real test would be to try both of them on the same mandolin and then compare what you hear, we could sit here all day and tell you one is better than the other but it is a matter of what sound we are looking for compared to what sound you are looking for...Installing one on a mandolin and it sounds better does not mean that that same bridge will make a difference on yours, same with strings, a lot of people post on here asking what we think of certain things and our answers don`t really mean that is what you will find by using the same prodect....These questions get old and all a newbie has to do is look at the archives and he/she will find most the answers...

    Sorry to sound so gruff......

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    Default Re: Cumberland Mandolin Bridge Verses Siminoff Mandolin Bridge

    Personally, I like writing up new questions to ask on products I've never heard of before, if just to get new reviews on quality of workmanship and material, differences of woods, designs

    anyone else

  16. #13
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    Default Re: Cumberland Mandolin Bridge Verses Siminoff Mandolin Bridge

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandolin-Tele View Post
    Gaboon ebony wood is the most pure black of the lot, but can have occasional chocolate brown seams, especially in the middle of larger chunks. You can pay significantly more for wood that is guaranteed to be pure black throughout. The sap wood is a light gray offering extreme contrasts in colour that can add dramatic flare to small turning projects like pens and bottle stoppers.
    Someone posted a link to info on world ebony production in another thread. Turns out Taylor guitars is heavily involved with the ebony trade and trying to find sustainable approaches. One of them is to buy ebony that is not pure black and sell it to other builders. It is a color issue, not a structural one. Here's a link to a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anCGvfsBoFY .

    Relevant to the discussion in that there are reasons why solid black ebony is scarce, and why we should really be OK with that if we want ebony used in our instruments.


    Don't play what's there, play what's not there. - Miles Davis


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    Registered User j. condino's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cumberland Mandolin Bridge Verses Siminoff Mandolin Bridge

    Steve and the crew at Cumberland Acoustics make a great traditional style bridge and are fantastic people to work with.

    j.
    www.condino.com

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    Default Re: Cumberland Mandolin Bridge Verses Siminoff Mandolin Bridge

    I'm probably going to buy a Cumberland bridge but I wanted to hear all my options

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    Default Re: Cumberland Mandolin Bridge Verses Siminoff Mandolin Bridge

    Steve at Cumberland makes a first class product. I havent played a Siminoff. Put one vote in for Cumberland

  21. #17
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    Default Re: Cumberland Mandolin Bridge Verses Siminoff Mandolin Bridge

    I've been playing for seven years now and reading the Cafe on a regular basis. But till a few weeks ago I've never paid much attention to the talk about bridges. Mainly because I didn't really see the importance and function of a good bridge (learned a lot on the Folkmusician site).

    I've often wondered what made my mandolin lack that bit of "oomph" that I long for. And I've often heard little tones that seem to want to get bigger an better but seem stifled and trapped. I think if I get a better bridge I'll get the sound I'm looking for. I just hate to pack up my mandolin and ship it off for the job. I think when I take the leap and get a new bridge I'll try and install it myself. My original bridge seems to fit pretty well, so I could probably use it for a guide and maybe make a few improvements. Can't be brain surgery to get a snug fit, can it? I just get tired of hiring professionals for everything in life. A person wants to learn to do things for oneself after a while.

    Have any of you installed your own bridge, learned to do your own setup work?
    ...

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  23. #18

    Default Re: Cumberland Mandolin Bridge Verses Siminoff Mandolin Bridge

    I've been using Siminoff bridges on my custom builds. Just switched to Cumberland Acoustics for my current batch and put one on this weekend. Both are excellent bridges. I would recommend them both.
    Eddie Blevins Mandolin Works
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    http://www.ebmworks.com/

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    Default Re: Cumberland Mandolin Bridge Verses Siminoff Mandolin Bridge

    Can't be brain surgery to get a snug fit, can it? I just get tired of hiring professionals for everything in life.
    Some of the difficulty is based on the particular mandolin. If you have a nice uniform arch on your top, it makes it much easier to fit the bridge foot. If the arch is not uniform, it can be extremely difficult to get a good fit. The good news is that you can test this by loosening your strings and scooting your current bridge around to see how tight the fit is. If you move it say 1/8" and it still has good tight contact, you can proceed with a standard bridge fitting method. If 1/8" movement produces air gaps or points of less than ideal contact, plan on it being about 400% more time consuming.

    Now fitting the bridge and fitting it really well are two different things. Matching the foot is one of the more time consuming aspects, but it is also one of the easier as far as looking at it and seeing what needs to be done. The same with lean angles and removing additional wood to get the height adjustment. These can be tedious, but basically self explanatory. String spacing and ramping the grooves correctly is not as easy as it looks, but completely doable with the correct files. In fact, this is the only stage where specialty tools are advised. Everything else can be done with standard files, knife, scraper and sandpaper.

    The only thing that is near impossible to do without some experience is having some idea where to take off wood (and where not to) and final tuning on the bridge. This takes some trial and error and is not something you are likely to get down on your first few bridges. Each mandolin being different, there is not really a step by step guideline to follow.

    I would go ahead and give it a shot. If you are careful, you shouldn't do any damage to the mandolin (maybe a few scratches) and you can always put the stock bridge back on if for some reason the new bridge doesn't work out.
    Robert Fear
    http://www.folkmusician.com

    "Education is when you read the fine print; experience is what you get when you don't.
    " - Pete Seeger

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    Ursus Mandolinus Fretbear's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cumberland Mandolin Bridge Verses Siminoff Mandolin Bridge

    As they are both (Sim & CA) described as accurate reproductions of Loar-style bridges, you would think they would be identical, but from some of the posts above, it would seem they are not.
    I have never had a Sim in my hand to compare them.
    Fitting a bridge perfectly is not easy, but it is not rocket science either; you get better at it with practice.The only real risks (besides spoiling a bridge) are possibly scratching the mandolin's top, which can be prevented by masking it off as much as possible and by working carefully, and of cracking the top by applying too much pressure, the risk of which while slight, is still there.
    But Amsterdam was always good for grieving
    And London never fails to leave me blue
    And Paris never was my kinda town
    So I walked around with the Ft. Worth Blues

  28. #21

    Default Re: Cumberland Mandolin Bridge Verses Siminoff Mandolin Bridge

    Hello all. Thanks for the information and subsequent MAS
    I thought my first post should be questioning 100+ years of successful design(s).

    Regardless of how well built a two piece bridge is - you are still re-distributing the saddle vibration via the post. It would seem to me the amount of dispersion from just the post and thumb wheels would be pretty significant. You would also be localizing the transfer of vibration to the 1/8" of post where it contacts the bridge, sort a bottle neck effect.

    .....so if resonance is the name of the game, wouldn't a one piece solid bridge be the best part for total and equal transfer?

    Other thoughts -
    -Wouldn't going through the grain be a better transfer than across the grain?

    -Wouldn't less mass = more vibration?

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  30. #22
    ************** Caleb's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cumberland Mandolin Bridge Verses Siminoff Mandolin Bridge

    Quote Originally Posted by Folkmusician.com View Post
    Some of the difficulty is based on the particular mandolin. If you have a nice uniform arch on your top, it makes it much easier to fit the bridge foot. If the arch is not uniform, it can be extremely difficult to get a good fit. The good news is that you can test this by loosening your strings and scooting your current bridge around to see how tight the fit is. If you move it say 1/8" and it still has good tight contact, you can proceed with a standard bridge fitting method. If 1/8" movement produces air gaps or points of less than ideal contact, plan on it being about 400% more time consuming.

    Now fitting the bridge and fitting it really well are two different things. Matching the foot is one of the more time consuming aspects, but it is also one of the easier as far as looking at it and seeing what needs to be done. The same with lean angles and removing additional wood to get the height adjustment. These can be tedious, but basically self explanatory. String spacing and ramping the grooves correctly is not as easy as it looks, but completely doable with the correct files. In fact, this is the only stage where specialty tools are advised. Everything else can be done with standard files, knife, scraper and sandpaper.

    The only thing that is near impossible to do without some experience is having some idea where to take off wood (and where not to) and final tuning on the bridge. This takes some trial and error and is not something you are likely to get down on your first few bridges. Each mandolin being different, there is not really a step by step guideline to follow.

    I would go ahead and give it a shot. If you are careful, you shouldn't do any damage to the mandolin (maybe a few scratches) and you can always put the stock bridge back on if for some reason the new bridge doesn't work out.
    Wow, this is very helpful and informative: thank you so much, Mr. Fear.

    With all this fresh on my mind, a thought occurred to me the other night while playing. My mandolin was set up and had some work done on it before I bought it. It's possible that it does not have the standard bridge from the (Eastman) factory. How would I know if it's already been changed? Are these aftermarket bridges stamped or labeled in some way?

    The mandolin already sounds great but does lack some oomph that I know is in there somewhere; my gut tells me it can be tweeked out of it somehow.
    ...

  31. #23
    Registered User Hendrik Ahrend's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cumberland Mandolin Bridge Verses Siminoff Mandolin Bridge

    The Siminoff bridge is longer than the CA and most other Loar style bridges, the threaded post spacing is actually wider. Roger has a reason for that. But I don't know, if it makes a difference sound wise. However, the bridge tops of original '20s Loar, Randy Wood and Darryl Wolfe bridges are interchangeable.

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  33. #24
    Ursus Mandolinus Fretbear's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cumberland Mandolin Bridge Verses Siminoff Mandolin Bridge

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry Eagle View Post
    However, the bridge tops of original '20s Loar, Randy Wood and Darryl Wolfe bridges are interchangeable.
    Is the saddle of the CA in that interchangeable group as well?
    But Amsterdam was always good for grieving
    And London never fails to leave me blue
    And Paris never was my kinda town
    So I walked around with the Ft. Worth Blues

  34. #25
    Americanadian Andrew B. Carlson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cumberland Mandolin Bridge Verses Siminoff Mandolin Bridge

    To the OP: Have you thought of Darryl Wolfe's bridges in your consideration? He uses high quality gaboon ebony and they're also Loar repros. I'm considering all of the above as well, but since Darryl has the same mando I do, he knows how the sound changes. What do you play on? Maybe one of us has done this mod before.
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