In Defense of Your Own Breaks

[Ivan Kelsall]

In 'classic' Banjo tunes,i always play the break as it was originally recorded ie. "I'll Never Shed Another Tear" by Flatt & Scruggs. I can't imagine that song without Earl's break. For other tunes,
i've nearly always played my own break - if i think i've come up with one good enough that is. For me there's no sense in ruining a good song simply trying to be 'slick' when i know i'm not up to it.
Also,for my part, i like to hear the 'classics' done the way they were originally done,that's why they're 'classics'. I've heard too many great tunes loused up by players who simply couldn't cut it to want to join their ranks,
Ivan

[pickinpete]

The thing about learning licks to put together into a break is, I dont believe you are going to be able to string together generic licks and still bring in the melody. You may be able to alter some of the licks and bring in some of the melody but you have to pick between a melody based break with embellishments or chord progression based fills.

[ralph johansson]

Too much intellectualization here. Improvisus means unforeseen. To improvise is to let things happen. When you stumble onto a cliche your improvisational urge will force you to develop the idea differently from previous occasions. If you don't have the urge you don't. It can't be studied, but some of the techniques involved can.

[farmerjones]

I think of a improvisation and a break as two different things.
Improv. is an ingredient.
A break is a section of a song or tune.

clean break
sweet break
minimalistic break
hot break
super hot or abstract break

If it's a jam, or if there's no arrangment, you'll get the top two depending upon the tune/song. If there's a second break, i listen to see what the rest are doing. If there's a third break, you're officially cookin. If i can't play it nice and clean, it ain't my ride to take. Sometimes i jump on and get beat up. Sometimes bruised. Sometimes that's what you get, jumping on something that's moving.

To me, there's just no fear of sounding like Sam Bush. It's like handwriting.
Playing the same notes, isn't duplication. Rereading the OP, i guess i don't listen with enough precision to get accused of copping somebody elses break. Sometimes if i'm hearing the tune for the first or second time, i'm definately not paying attention to the other guys hammer-ons. I'm thinking, "Man i hope the rythm guitar doesn't follow my changes, because then there'll be two guys going to the crash instead of just me."

[Alex Orr]

Originally Posted by farmerjones

I think of a improvisation and a break as two different things.

I'm not getting that. A "break" is just an area of a tune where an instrument takes a solo. In rock music it's usually called "the solo". You can write a break, memorize it, and play it precisely as learned; you can stick with an idea and change it around on the fly; or you can totally improvise it. As such, improvising a break is just another strategy for how you approach your solo.

[EarlG]

Lot's of good thoughts here. Seems like some memorize breaks, some play the melody, some improvise and some change them up a little.

Seems to me they all work and probably get used according to where you are in your learning.

[farmerjones]

I was told the word "break" came from the singing song genres, where the singer would take a break from singing. I'd say "solo" works too. Improv. - making something out of what is available (you) As improv as an gredient, you can use a little of yourself or alot.

I've heard about bands that work out breaks ahead of time so they don't spook the rythm section. As i sort of hinted in my last post, sometimes the rythm is following the soloist, so if the soloist gets lost, so does the rythm. If the rythm knows to hold tight, the soloist can crash, but the tune will role on over him, and keep going. In cases of an agreed upon (pre-planned)break, it must be essentially duplicated for the sake of continuity.
I've played with studio guys that can improvise, but play what they just played, exactly the same, time and time again. It's interesting. It can be art, but once it's layed down, it becomes a craft. Or it can be art (different) every time. Or it can be a craft every time, where you stick to a page.

[EdSherry]

I dunno -- some of the breaks I've played are pretty indefensible.

[JeffD]

Originally Posted by Mike Bunting

Any break you make up on your own is better than someone else's break. If I wanted to hear that someone elses break, I'd buy his record.

I would further add that the break should be inspired by the tune in which it is being used. I don't care for generic breaks forcibly inserted into any tune with a close enough chord progression.


Generic breaks are like pick-up lines, they may be clever, but they show no individuality and no appreciation for the specifics of the situation in which they are applied.

[Philphool]

Originally Posted by Mike Bunting

Any break you make up on your own is better than someone else's break. If I wanted to hear that someone elses break, I'd buy his record.

Maybe. But how is that different than saying, " Any lyrics you make up on your own are better than someone's else's lyrics...."

Sometimes you might just want to play the song the way you've heard it and liked it.

[mandolooter]

I've learned that tho mine don't sound as good as some other peoples I have trouble playing someone else's and making it "mine" per say. Its my music leaking out of me! I do wish I could duplicate a lot of what I hear but mostly so I could incorperate it into my breaks.

Thats my defense....

[ralph johansson]

Originally Posted by Philphool

Maybe. But how is that different than saying, " Any lyrics you make up on your own are better than someone's else's lyrics...."

Sometimes you might just want to play the song the way you've heard it and liked it.

The lyrics are part of the song. The solos are part of your treatment of it.
Huge difference.

[JeffD]

Originally Posted by farmerjones

I think of a improvisation and a break as two different things.
Improv. is an ingredient.
A break is a section of a song or tune.

Hmmm. I've always thought that a break was essentially improvisational. I have always known that some folks learn other's breaks or work out breaks ahead of time, or work out generic breaks that can be used in lots of songs - but I have never heard anyone admit it. When someone gets complimented on a break, he or she usually just lets everyone think it just came spontaneously.

You don't hear someone say like "thanks Floyd, I learned that off a Ricky Skaggs CD" or "thanks Lloyd, I been working out that break for weeks and finally found a tune to play it in."

[Kevin Briggs]

I have a few thoughts about this one. By the way, I really like this thread. The topic is at the heart of playing music.

First, I agree that often think Sam Bush or Tony Rice played perfect breaks for particular songs. The one Vassar Clements does on the hidden "Catfish John" track on one of the Old and in the Way CDs is what I would call a perfect break. But also know that those guys would not even replicate their own break, because the song dictates the break. If they played it again a few minutes later the break would be different, at least to some degree. The individual performances in the heat of the battle decide, to some degree what to play. They are not just "playing breaks," they are playing music with a group of people and are working to express what they hear as the song goes on and their time to shine arrives.

Next, I agree that we should not just go around copying people's breaks. That's boring and I think it bores the people we play with, since they are listening to hear our creative ideas. However, like T.S. Eliot wrote about aspiring writers, we nee to know what came before so we can begin to make meaningful contributions. We need to try to play (Eliot said write) like people to see where our creative differences emerge, then we can move on with our newfound self-knowledge to another player to emulate. I think we can best realize our own potential by indulging in purposefully mimicking other people's styles for a period of time. Heck, our buddies Grisman and Bush did it shamelessly before coming into their own. My perspective is that once we go through this process we can then really shine as individual players because we will have a greater self-identity and a very developed style of our own.

Last, I also agree that playing off the cuff is where it's at. If we can relax and let the music dictate to us what we should play we will always play a good break. This is because we will be making music. Even if we can only manage a few notes here and there, if we are listening to the music and playing what we are able to play, then we have the perfect combination. The great part is you don't have to be Chris Thile to improvise. I enjoy improvising and feel good about it, and here is my basic approach:
1. Start with a walk up into your break; three little notes that lead to...
2. The melody
3. Plan to stick to the melody for as the music dictates. Chances are the four or five people you are playing with, or the CD that you are listening to are not robots, so their playing with have fluctuations.
4. Improvise simply... a little rhythmic glitch, an extra note or two when it feels right. Just throw it in there and make sure you are in the right key.
5. Do what Clapton said, ""Usually I do my best when I just close me eyes and play."

It seems simple, but I really think we are trying to hard a lot of the time. If we just commit to actually playing the song and play WITH the people around us it will somehow take care of itself. We often seem to play along with people, but as if we were playing alone.

[Mike Bunting]

Good post Kevin, dead on.

[JeffD]

Originally Posted by AlanN

hmmm....

I'm all for individual expression, artistic statements, all that, but

Skaggs on Old Home Place
Rice on Blue Railroad Train

Just 2 that immediately come to mind as perfection, tough to 'improve' on. Sure, you can play something on those tunes that makes the solos your own, but in terms of note choices/phrasing/accents, these are the gold standard (imo).

Some Red Rector and Bob Osborne breaks fall into this, too.

I am sure they did not get their breaks out of a book, or by copying someone else.

Do we want to copy what they played, or do we want to do what they did, and play it from our own imagination and ability. OK I am never going to be a Ricky Skaggs, but I would rather work hard at being me than at emulating anyone. Being almost Skaggs, or almost anyone else, has never been my goal.

[Philphool]

[QUOTE=JeffD;731170]I am sure they did not get their breaks out of a book, or by copying someone else.

Do we want to copy what they played, or do we want to do what they did, and play it from our own imagination and ability. ...=====================

Yep! and THEN do my own thing.

[J. Galoshes Esq.]

Dance with and around the melody.

[Nolan]

Whatever you do.... don't get locked into learning from TAB. That's the kiss of death. There are a couple of ways you can arrive at the same destination (copying someone elses break) but the path you take will greatly influence your future improvement. The first is learning by ear.. the second is learning from TAB. Use TAB as a last resort. Also, if you do want to learn someone elses break it's good to kinda tear it apart and look at the theory behind it and why it works for a particular song. Don't get me wrong, I don't think TAB evil... I've just seen a lot of players who can't seperate themselves from it. Kinda like how classical violin players don't do so well in a bluegrass setting... they don't have music in front of them.

[bobby bill]

Any break you make up on your own is better than someone else's break. If I wanted to hear that someone elses break, I'd buy his record.

Several folks disagreed with Mr. Bunting's sentiments. I don't think he is saying that if you make up your own break you will sound better than David Grisman; rather you will sound better playing your own break than playing someone elses.

I tend to agree with this. Originality, authenticity, honesty and integrity are all things that can be heard in music in addition to the notes themselves. We used to have a public access music channel here and I would find myself listening all the time to bands who might be mediocre in the talent department performing in genres that were not necessarily my favorite, but if they were playing original and honest music I would almost always find something interesting. I will always take a so-so original band over the slickest cover band.

[woodwizard]

Originally Posted by J. Galoshes Esq.

Dance with and around the melody.

There you go!

[Rob Gerety]

Originally Posted by Nolan

Whatever you do.... don't get locked into learning from TAB. That's the kiss of death.

Agreed. This is key. But it applies to any written notation, including standard notation, not just tab. I am 100% convinced that playing 99% by ear - especially when learning new tunes - but really any time - is really important. I went down that tab road for a while with guitar and it lead me nowhere. Wish I had figured it out earlier than I did.

[Philphool]

Okay. Maybe we're not really disagreeing about as much as it sounds like.

I just know that at my level of non-expertise, when I try to learn a break that's played by one of the professionals, and learn it by ear, I always LEARN something. After I pick out the break, I start to see the pattern and start to understand a little about why the pro did the break that way.

Honestly, I seldom end up playing the break exactly like the pro did it, but starting out with his/her approach gives me a direction that I would never make up on my own. Maybe some day.

Hopefully, some of these little snippets will lurk in my subconscious and turn into tools as my own originality develops.