Mandolins Made From Sustainably Harvested Wood

[azhockeyguy]

Does anyone know of an builder that uses sustainably harvested wood in the construction of their mando's?

Thanks!

[Bill Snyder]

Give some examples of the species of wood you are interested in. Most such species (I actually can not think of any) would not work well for an instrument.

[azhockeyguy]

I was more asking if there was any builders actively doing this as a practice. Seems most everything is either made in China or the wood is harvested overseas in a negative manner.

[Woody Turner]

Most woods used in the construction of mandolins (unlike guitars, which rely on rosewoods and mahogany) are not endangered and do not need to be certified for sustainable woodlot yield. These include hard and soft maples and various spruces (red, Engelmann, Sitka, European). Fingerboards, though, are often made from endangered species like ebony or rosewood, though the amount used is very small. Substitutions of hard native woods dyed black could be made.

[Fretbear]

Not to negate your concerns, but as Woody posted while I was writing, mandolins are constructed primarily from maple and spruce, neither of which are particularly endangered species. Because of the relatively small amount of those materials required to build them, and the small amount of them built, the real-world impact of mandolin construction upon the environment and the tree species used would be too infinitesimal to even measure, relative to the other things that they are used for, such as construction and newsprint. The ebony used in the fingerboards and bridges, which could be more of a concern, is used in even smaller quantities, and are often sourced by builders as an item purchased from another party, whose origins would then be difficult for him to accurately verify.

[barney 59]

I,on a hoot and because it was dirt cheap bought one of those Asian inlay extravaganzas. The instrument is actually pretty terrible but, here's the thing,the back and sides are solid rosewood the top is solid spruce. They are making these things by the hundreds maybe the thousands. I saw a new Chinese J.B. Player guitar- solid spruce top and a retail price of $250. How much of this really can be sustained? I once stayed in a house in Oregon that had been built for the military when they were cutting spruce for WWl aircraft--the thing was there wasn't even a hint that spruce had once grown anywhere near there. You would think that one spruce tree could make alot of those ribs and canvas planes! I don't think that a few custom mandolin builders will make that much of a dent but that with all the rest of what is happening there has to be a limit--A huge amount of quality woods are being used to manufacture virtually unplayable instruments. What are those Johnson type things made out of?

[Ted Eschliman]

James Condino: Green Cricket



99% Recycled
70 yr old seasoned Douglas Fir top, back, & sides
Recycled frets, tuning machines, and inlays
Sustainably harvested bridge, pickguard, fingerboard, head plates

More: James Condino review

[Bill Snyder]

Originally Posted by barney 59

--A huge amount of quality woods are being used to manufacture virtually unplayable instruments. What are those Johnson type things made out of?

The cheaper ones are made of plywood. Quite literally. And not plywood of some exotic woods, just thin plywood.
The higher priced ones (still inexpensive) are made of spruce and maple.
Necks on all of them are maple.

[MikeEdgerton]

Originally Posted by barney 59

...I once stayed in a house in Oregon that had been built for the military when they were cutting spruce for WWl aircraft--the thing was there wasn't even a hint that spruce had once grown anywhere near there....

The things we forget. I grew up in Oregon and it was/is a timber state. I couldn't recall any spruce in the area (a ton of Douglas Fir), then this popped up. I probably drove past that sign 100 times in my life and I'd forgotten all about it.

[Capt. E]

I wonder if any useable boards could be taken from this tree. Maybe the State would allow it to be used for "art" projects such as mandolin tops....

[mandotopia]

I believe old growth trees (or trees from a virgin forrest) generally have tighter grain (more rings per inch) due to the fact that they did not grow up in a field w/lots of light but in a forrest with an existing canopy. I think the tight grain is more desirable for builders (I am not a builder). There are some companies that specialize in recovering old growth (and virgin) timber from old buildings and more interesting from the bottoms of lakes and rivers where these timbers were part of a shipwreck or wound up therer for some other reason. Martin now has a "green" line of higher end guitars as well.

[frankblackcat]

Not wishing to divert the thread away from the original question, but Fretbear commented on maple and spruce not being endangered, which is probably true, but endangered and sustainably sourced are very different things. The criteria for saying something has been sustainably sourced varies depending on who's saying it's sustainable. Forestry Stewardship Council schemes are probably the most well known but certainly not the only ones out there. I've seen well managed forests which are not certificated and therefore would struggle to put the sustainable label on their timber, and I have experience of forestry companies who have successfully been through the FSC process, though having seen some of their work on sites I have managed it suggests there are weaknesses in the process at present.

[Richard Sanabia]

I am using Lyptus, works beautifully, and looks great.

[Jon Hall]

A possible substitute for ebony or rosewood would be mesquite. It is very hard,visually attractive and very stable with little shrinkage after being kiln dried. Another possibility would be persimmon since it is a true ebony, however, I don't know how stable it is.

[Bill Snyder]

Originally Posted by mandotopia

I believe old growth trees (or trees from a virgin forrest) generally have tighter grain (more rings per inch) due to the fact that they did not grow up in a field w/lots of light but in a forrest with an existing canopy. I think the tight grain is more desirable for builders (I am not a builder). There are some companies that specialize in recovering old growth (and virgin) timber from old buildings and more interesting from the bottoms of lakes and rivers where these timbers were part of a shipwreck or wound up therer for some other reason. Martin now has a "green" line of higher end guitars as well.

Tight grain is actually more desirable to buyers, not necessarily builders. Some of the finest instruments ever built have had wide grain tops, even some of the Loars.

[MikeEdgerton]

Originally Posted by Capt. E

I wonder if any useable boards could be taken from this tree. Maybe the State would allow it to be used for "art" projects such as mandolin tops....

I don't know, Oregon is a wood savvy state and has a fairly large population of artists. I remember when I lived there that wood carvers would drive around the neighborhoods after big wind storms offering to take out downed hardwood trees that they could use for free. Most homeowners too ke them up on the offer. I can't believe that some luthier in Oregon didn't at least try to get a piece of this tree.

[Mandoviol]

Anybody ever built one out of Osage Orange?

[MikeEdgerton]

Here is a list of various discussions, all that mention Osage. It appears that some builders have used it for components (fretboards, bridges, etc.) It's enlightening to scroll through some of them.

[Mike Bunting]

I believe I saw a programme on the tube about a sustainable forestry harvest of trees in Alaska for musical instruments, spearheaded by Taylor Guitars. Here is a link to their policies on their webpage.
http://www.taylorguitars.com/guitars.../Conservation/

[Bill Snyder]

Originally Posted by Mandoviol

Anybody ever built one out of Osage Orange?

Not yet, but I do have some Osage Orange (aka bois d' arc) cut for fret boards and I have the seasoned wood to resaw for backs and sides. I will probably use it for flat top instruments.

[grandcanyonminstrel]

I've built instruments made out of several kinds of sustainably harvested, certified, and salvaged /recovered / recycled woods and to the other extreme where they were definitely NOT sustainably harvested and had some very questionably origins (the Lorax mandolin?). As in a lot of things in life, the primary driving force with a new instrument build is not my preference or choices. Typically the person who writes the check calls the shots.

The "Cricket" posted earlier ( thanks Ted!), happens to be one of my personal favorites that I have ever built. It is very pure in what I was trying to express as a design concept and was built for a tradeshow on Earthday. Even with all of the media coverage that it has gotten- print articles, photo essays, video features, and countless web discussions- since it was built, not a single person has called asking for one like it or one using similar design / material concepts.

During that same time period, several dozen people have ordered instruments made with very exotic or endagnered material- like the African Blackwood series, even after I reminded them of the true meaning of what they were asking for and the fact that they pay a premium charge for the materials which gets given to the African Blackwood Conservation Project to try to help reforestation. Some folks pay a lot more and take pride in driving a Prius; others go out of their way to make sure that the rest of the world can clearly see that they pride themselves in driving a "clunker" gas hog as a symbol of who they are. ( No offense intended to either Prius drivers or clunkers- it was just intended as a metaphor; I haven't owned any car in about 3 1/2 years....)

Many builders would gladly build a fine instrument out of sustainably harvested woods- they are just waiting for the phone call. Stop by the shop for a visit and a bit of laughter and we'll talk about two great luthier friends of mine- one who has an entire dining room table, chairs, coffee table, and end table set made out of incredible 1.5" thick quartersawn Brazilian rosewood and the other who built most of his house out of a recycled barn....

j.
www.condino.com

[Jim MacDaniel]

Hi J,

I gotta say I've always loved your designs, as well as your wood and finish choices -- and especially those of your Cricket. (I also enjoyed reading your text accompanying your 10-string model, as well as the Michael Hedges reference -- I immediately heard in my head what you meant upon reading it. )

-jim

[Ed Lee]

Originally Posted by Jon Hall

A possible substitute for ebony or rosewood would be mesquite. It is very hard,visually attractive and very stable with little shrinkage after being kiln dried. Another possibility would be persimmon since it is a true ebony, however, I don't know how stable it is.

Persimmon was once used for golf clubs, as such vintage clubs are now prized collectibles. Even with the advent of a metal shaft, driver heads still command mega-bucks in this market, albeit some have told me that the best of these is made from the persimmon root. Otherwise, no one shall dare cut down our persimmon tree.

Still, I think such establishes that this wood is recognizable as being stable.