Mandolin Tasting 11-1-09

[Kevin K]

Sunday afternoon, some friends brought their mandolins over for some recording.
The four mandolins in alphabetical order are -
Breedlove Quartz FF
Gibson Fern - Weber Signed
Gilchrist F5
Summit Custom F100

Below are four tracks in no certain order. In each of those tracks are two sections of songs by two different players. Which tracks belong to which mandolins?

have fun....

[johnhgayjr]

I listened through my ipod ear buds - not the best way to listen I'm sure.
There is very little difference to my ear - especially on the high end. Some subtle differences on the low end. Interesting test.

I'm guessing:
1 - Breedlove
2 - Gibson
3 - Gil
4 - Summit

John Gay
Memphis

[talbotpat]

Probably way wrong...but here are my guesses.

1. Gilchrist
2. Gibson
3. Breedlove
4. Summit

[Kevin K]

In addition, make comments on why you think certain tracks are certain mandolins too.

Thanks.

[John Ely]

I can't even begin to guess, but I liked Number 1 the best. It seemed to have a fuller, more complex tone. After that, I liked 3 next. Numbers 2 and 4 seemed similar to me. None sounded bad - don't get me wrong.

[JeffD]

Its really hard to say. (I am not the best at this). But I do find I have a preference for #2.

[OldSausage]

I like No.4. I've no idea which is which either.

[Jeremy Frank]

Thanks for posting this!

I thought for sure I would be able to pick out the Gibson, but no luck. I've listened to each track three times now on a pair of decent full-size headphones, and while they all sound different, it is difficult to rank them. I think I would give the nod to the mandolin in Track 1 - It has great tone and a beautiful, rich ring when chords are played (16 seconds in).

[Nolan]

I like 2 and 3 the best, they seem more woody to me.
1 and 4 are nice though.... they all sounds like a mandolins!

I have no idea on the mandolins... I'lll guess
1. Summit
2. Gilchrist
3. Gibson
4. Breedlove (just a guess cause the first line had a little flub and I'm going to guess it was because of the bigger fretboard)

[sunburst]

OK, I'll bite, and probably show how easy it is to be fooled and how much preconceived notions can influence what I hear.

#1
I think it's a rather generic mandolin sound, not too complex, a little tight but with a pretty well balanced bass.

#2
At first I thought this one was a little tight too, but as the track progressed it seemed to have more head room with a responsive bass and clear treble.

#3
Not a lot of complexity, and the player seems to be hitting the G string harder leading me to believe it needs some help to compete with the D string.

#4
Almost thin sounding. Sounds like the top may be a little too heavy, a little more sustain and a little less response than I think I would like.

Now for my guesses as to which is which. Last time I tried this I think I got each one wrong.
For one thing, I'm fairly familiar with the work of Breedlove, Gilchrist and Weber/Gibson, but as far as I know I've never heard a Summit so it's the only one I don't have a preconceived notion of what it would sound like.

Here are my guesses, and they are guesses. I'll be surprised to get 50 percent right:

Gibson
Gilchrist
Breedlove
Summit

[foldedpath]

I'm going to put on my curmudgeon hat here (every forum needs one), and say that comparisons like this can be skewed drastically by the recording chain.

Using a microphone and preamp tilted towards the "dark" end of the spectrum, like a large diaphragm tube mic or ribbon mic can favor the tone of "bright" or even "harsh-sounding" mandolins. I can make a cheap Asian import mandolin sound pretty good using a Royer 121 and Great River preamp cranked into the analog zone that shaves off the highs, adds a little coloration to the tone, and makes the instrument sound more impressive than it really is.

Using a microphone and preamp tilted in the other direction, say a small-diaphragm Schoeps condenser into a super-fast, neutral preamp, can favor naturally "darker" sounding instruments, or reveal the qualities of a fine instrument that would sound more pleasing played acoustically in a room.

The point is that you're not just listening to different mandolins here. You're listening to a recording chain as a filter, where everything acts as an "EQ". With all due respect to Kevin's efforts, something like this can never be an objective test, so be careful about making assumptions based on what sounds better here. Listening to someone play those mandolins in a room might be a different story, with nothing between your ears and the instrument.

[sunburst]

I'll take it a step further and say that the player is a "filter" and that we can't even get the true differences from listening live. We have to pick them up and play them to really start to understand the differences.
But, so what? The point here is just a fun game of "guess the mandolin".

[OldSausage]

Originally Posted by foldedpath

...with nothing between your ears...

This is where the biggest filter of all lives.

[foldedpath]

My Significant Other often accuses me of having nothing between my ears.

[tburcham]

Ok Kevin,

These are listed in the order that I like the sound best, e.g., I liked the complexity of tone from mandolin #1 .. it sounds really good. I think #3 is the Summit, although it could easily be confused with a GREAT Gibson Fern. I going with the Breedlove for #2, since I've had one of those and I know they are great sounding mandolins...the only thing that makes me think that maybe the Breedlove is #4 is the finger work indicates that yall might not be used to the wider nut width...anyway, I'm going with the Fern as mando #4. Let me know how I did! Tim

#1 - Gilchrist
#3 - Your Summit F-100
#2 - Breedlove FF
#4 - Gibson Fern

[oldwhiteman]

Originally Posted by sunburst

I'll take it a step further and say that the player is a "filter" and that we can't even get the true differences from listening live.

I was in the room when the recording was done and you could hear the differences--not really dramatic but definitely noticeable.

It was truly an ear opening experience.

[Kevin K]

Thanks for all the response. This was mostly for fun, no scientific study or anything ground breaking.
The flub mentioned was the initial playing for the day and I probably should have re-recorded it.
The mic used was a Shure Beta57 through a mixer and using Audacity to record, flat eq, no effects and nothing changed between recordings, keeping the same distance from mic to mandolin.
Now in person, you could hear more differences but they all remained close. Each had their own dynamics to sound. A good mandolin is gonna sound different when different players play it as well as when played through equipment. Reminds me of a story I heard about the great Chet Atkins. Chet was backstage with his guitar on a stand, someone came up and said "that is a great sounding guitar", Chet responded, "yes, it sounds pretty good sitting there in the stand doesn't it"?
Now for results
Recording 1 Breedlove
Recording 2 Gibson
Recording 3 Gilchrist
Recording 4 Summit

John Gay got it right.

[buckles]

Originally Posted by Kevin K

...A good mandolin is gonna sound different when different players play it as well as when played through equipment. Reminds me of a story I heard about the great Chet Atkins. Chet was backstage with his guitar on a stand, someone came up and said "that is a great sounding guitar", Chet responded, "yes, it sounds pretty good sitting there in the stand doesn't it"?...

I've heard a couple of variations on this story, both about violinists. In both cases, after a performance, an audience member said to the concert artist something like "Your violin sounds marvelous." In one case, the artist replies, "My violin thanks you." In the other, the artist Isaac Stern whips out his violin, hands it to the lady and says, "Here, show me."

[sunburst]

Well, perhaps luthiers think it's all the instrument, and perhaps virtuoso players think it's all the player, but I really don't think that's the case. I think we all realize, deep down, that a good instrument can make the player sound better and that a good player can make the instrument sound better. It's both; the player and the instrument.
As both a builder and a player, I'm not offended when someone mentions how good my instrument sounds, it is a good sounding instrument. Perhaps it would sound better if I was a virtuoso player, but it would still be a good instrument and worthy of praise, and it would be pretentious of me to feel entitled to all the credit as the player.

[Kevin K]

Exactly, teamwork would be a good term

[Mark Marino]

Wow- the results really surprised me. I got into the game late (some of us actually have to WORK...).

I listened to them all a couple times before knowing what was what, and #1 was clearly the best to my ears- lots of punch, some complexity, and from my completely amateur standpoint, was what I'd buy if I was blind.

Guess I need to go try a Breedlove next time I'm at Elderly Instruments!

[johnhgayjr]

So Kevin - do I win my pick of the litter?

John

[Kevin K]

Ah, well, No. I can't make that happen. But I'll think of something since you got it correct.

kk

[thejamdolinplayer]

Originally Posted by Mark Marino

Wow- the results really surprised me. I got into the game late (some of us actually have to WORK...).

I listened to them all a couple times before knowing what was what, and #1 was clearly the best to my ears- lots of punch, some complexity, and from my completely amateur standpoint, was what I'd buy if I was blind.

Guess I need to go try a Breedlove next time I'm at Elderly Instruments!

The breedlove FF is a great mandolin, that is what I had before I upgraded to my Collings MT..

[Marcus CA]

Originally Posted by Kevin K

Sunday afternoon, some friends brought their mandolins over for some recording.
The four mandolins in alphabetical order are -
Breedlove Quartz FF
Gibson Fern - Weber Signed
Gilchrist F5
Summit Custom F100

As in a great detective story, you gave us the answer in your original post. In this case, apparently, the eyes could have been more useful than the ears.