Opinions wanted - tailpieces

[Atlanta Mando Mike]

Ok, so I have a standard Gibson style tailpiece that is now rusty and in general need of changing. As you all undoubtably know, there are lots of options out there. Can anyone give me any opinions on differences in tone you personally have noticed after changing from a standard tailpiece to an Allen, or some other cast tailpiece. Insights greatly appreciated.

[JEStanek]

Re: Tailpiece swaps. You'll get the range of replies from nothing to some increased sustain. I don't think they change the tone of the instrument. I think they can make string changes easier. Go for a swap that uses holes of the same configuration so you don't have to plug and redrill. I really like John Hamlett's design myself.

Jamie

[Tom C]

I had an Allen -monteleone style I foget model number maybe the AR. It is in the processes of being switch with a Bill James. I had big issues with the Allen as I would not be able to replace the D string that is next to the G without loosing the G- because the G string obstructed the tang for loop for D string. Same with A and E. The Monteleone has tangs that are more like posts. I had mine for a long time so maybe they have been improved.

Mine seemed more crowded than the pic below but hopefully you can see what I am talking about.

[mandroid]

Can't speak to tone change, as my ears are not on your head.

What I can say is that mechanically, string changes with my replacement tail-pieces are much simpler,
than with the ones that have slide off [and get set aside and possibly forget where you left it] covers,
like Bill James , and the ones Steven Gilchrist uses ...

both covers are hinged , and with the lid closed, the loop end of the string does not come off the peg ,
so all you have to deal with is the the winding it around the tuner's capstan.

[Nolan]

Originally Posted by Atlanta Mando Mike

Ok, so I have a standard Gibson style tailpiece that is now rusty and in general need of changing.

You got yourself an real distressed tailpiece there! I'd keep it on that mandolin!

I always thought these were cool
http://www.elderly.com/accessories/items/JMT1-GOLD.htm


BTW... when are you going to get the Dappled Grays out here on the west coast? Good stuff there on your web page.

[Rob Gerety]

I know that the James is very nice and he has it in many screw hole configurations to fit common mandos - also he will custom drill.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Both the James & Allen tailpieces are very well made. I understand the issue with the Allen 'Monteleone' style t/p though. I have a 'similar' but not quite as bad issue with the t/p on my Lebeda. Personally,my favourite is the Allen,purely on account of the fact that there are no 'moving' parts at all - therefor nothing can rattle,jam or anything else.
Rob - that's very interesting info.you've give there,re.Bill James' ability to custom drill a t/p.Very useful to know,if,like myself you have 2 Mandolins,with non-standard drilling patterns - many thanks,
Ivan

[Dave Hanson]

My 92 year old ' A ' still has it's original tailpiece in perfect condition, they were nickel or nickel plated so how can they rust ? I really prefer it to the cast tailpiece on my Eastman or the trapeze type on my other mandolin and if it's not broke don't fix it.

Dave H

[Ivan Kelsall]

Years back,when i used to refurbish Banjos,i had many that had tailpieces made from what i can only describe as thin steel sheet,& that were nickel plated. More often than not,the plating was of poor quality & had worn through leaving the parent material to rust. I think that modern materials & plating methods are far superior to what they used to be,so an 'old' rusty tailpiece doesn't surprise me in the least,
Ivan

[Spencer]

I replace the standard, sliding cover tailpiece with an Allen because I got tired of the hassle with the cover. It was either to tight to get off easily, or else it fell off. Have had not problems at all with the Allen. I had Victor change it for me, as the screw holes had to be moved a little. Neither of us could hear any difference in the tone at all. You have to remember to protect the top between the bridge and tail piece when changing strings. Quite pleased with it.

Spencer

[8ch(pl)]

I swapped mine out for a Weber Universal. I hate those Gibson style tailpieces! I have posted this before, but I will again. I had thought that the sound was greatly improved. It may be that I just wanted it to be, but whenever you change a tailpiece, you change the strings as well and they probably account for the improvement.

For my part, I like the look of the cast tailpiece and I don't struggle with the cover, so, easy string changes. Yes the James is probably the best, but the price is much more. It is not easy to find cast tailpieces in this part of the world. Since I have a Weber on my current Mid Missouri, I am going to put one on the new one that I have put away for Christmas.

I still have a Gibson Type on my Samick A, but it is more of a beater. I am not sure that renewing the frets on it is worth while with the present costs of Pacific Rim instruments, but the Samick is a nice sounding mandolin.

[Rob Gerety]

I've never had one of the old Gibson tailpieces - I have an Eastman now and that tailpiece seems fine to me - albeit a little hard to get the strings to stay put on the hooks while I am getting a new string started on the tuning peg. But, I have a new to me vintage Gibson on the way so I'm about to get some first hand experience.

[John Rosett]

I replaced the tailpiece on my old (sniff) '85 Flatiron with a Saga Monteleone style TP in 1986 because the original came apart. The best thing about it was that you could use ball-end strings if you had to. Since I sold that mandolin, I've had both cast and vintage style TP's, and I don't think that there's much difference in tone. As far as ease of string changes, the vintage style with the cover left off is probably the easiest. Of course, if you're breaking strings all the time, there's some other problem.

[DerTiefster]

Is etching and re-plating your existing tailpiece an option? You could probably do it with a high school chemistry set (or could have a couple of decades ago). And there are electro-less nickel deposit solutions which could be used if you didn't have a spare lantern battery. But if you just want to experiment with tail-pieces, that could be educational, too. Maybe swap educate yourself with a new tailpiece and at the same time educate yourself (or one of your progeny) with an electroplating project. If you don't end up liking the new tailpiece, or if the old one turns out irrestibly well, you could swap back.

[Jonathan Ward]

I put Allen MR-2 tailpieces on both my Michael Kelley Legacy Plus mando and my TC Irish bouzouki, and it improved the character of both instruments. Better sustain, more volume, richer tone. The tailpiece swaps proved to make the difference between frustration and pleasure for the player. I talked with Randy Allen at length about selecting the best tailpiece for the 'zouk, and he's a good guy who really knows his stuff.

[Ivan Kelsall]

From the photos. i've seen of some of the top builder's Mandolins,both the James & Allen t/p's are used by many of them,which bodes well for long term ''t/p satisfaction'',
Ivan

[Big Joe]

The James is a great tailpiece giving both great function and traditional looks. They are extremely well made and work incredibly well. I don't like the Allen/ Monteleone style. They look cool, but they are not as easy to string and as any piece of hardware, they can cause a rattle where the string makes contact. Anything can become noisy...though that would be a rare problem. I don't think you could wear a James out even with frequent string changes. That is what we will use on our next ones we make.

[mtucker]

Originally Posted by Big Joe

The James is a great tailpiece...

Great tailpiece, great guy.

[Trip]

Mike...I put the Orrico(sp?) cast bronze on a year ago and it is a beautiful work of art type design, with no cover to fool with, and did notice a very subtle change in tone that I prefer....a little less tinny to me........but it is very subjective as to what strings you choose(I use TI stark)and your attack.........you play real grass, and I play lots of styles(jazz, blues, rock) and fake a little grass.
we have met at a couple of shows and I live in town if you wanted to check it out.....
most people comment on the intricate and unique design, string changes are pretty easy for a mando, and it hits the Gibson holes perfectly, but I did have some mods to mine because I decided to turn it into a end-pin 1/4" jack, and it is not really designed for that, but it worked out great anyway....

[Mark Gibbs]

I just got back one of my mandolins having the tailpiece (stamped Gibson style) replaced with a James tailpiece. The reason i chose the James was for the Gibson style look. I'm having another mandolin made and will use another James and this time i think I'll have it engraved with the Wilkie logo. Speaking of this mando on order, I understand the Waverly tuners were shipped last week. Nickle with ebony knobs.
On my mandolin that i have had for 33 years, boy I'm getting old, the stamped tailpiece cracked at the bend and i replaced it with the Montelone Style and i have no regrets. Down the road I think I'll sell the Montelone tailpiece and replace it with a James for aesthetic value only. I hope my wife dosen't read this post.

[Dubz]

Ive never changed a tailpiece on a mando (I have on a banjo and it made A LOT of difference tonally), but science says there would a tonal difference to some degree due to it being one of the points where the energy is transfered through the instrument from the strings, the other being the nut, and we all know the nut material can change the tone.

[Lee]

My vote goes for Weber's universal (no "W"), in heat treated stainless steel.
Looks good (to me). No moving parts. String changes are easy. No plating to wear away, ever. And they aren't expensive.

[Ken Sager]

If you're going to spend some money get the best. Get the James.