Best Non-Waverly Tuners

[Atlanta Mando Mike]

Hey guys/girls...I need some new tuners on the mando. Its a standard F-5, made by Randy Wood-thinking nickle. Anyone have any input on Schaeller vs Grover vs Golden Age vs something maybe I don't know about. I haven't looked into this much. I know the Waverly's are by far the best but not wanting to spend that much.

[Jim Hilburn]

I just got a few of these new Grovers to try. They addressed what I felt was the biggest drawback of the old ones which was the extra long mounting plates.
The stamping/engraving is going to be a personal decision if you like it or not. I wish their plating was a little more satin and less bright.
The large buttons aren't going to win over many who are looking for tradition but functionally they do give you something to get a grip on.
But the most important part, they are as smooth as silk. Each button turns with just the right amount of resistance and each feels exactly like the others. With the 18/1 ratio I don't see how you could improve on these. edit: For the price.

[mandroid]

Alessi is up there , $450-ish after exchange rate from Euros,
but another one that is jewelry with a gear.

Looks like Niccolo has a different way of making the round gear to string post attachment
so offers an option for the center decor of the round gear,
since there is no screw on the back..

just the little ones holding the plates onto the headstock.

. . . . . .

I downgraded from Waverlys that were retrofitted to 'Elites'
that are more tolerant of slight misalignment of the string post spacing.
undisclosed flaw on 3rd hand Mix A5 I got off the classifieds, one tuner so tight to turn it essentially DNF.

after the tuner swap, have played the Mix several times for hours at a time ,
hasn't needed retuning for a few weeks ..

[acousticnotes]

Originally Posted by Jim Hilburn

I just got a few of these new Grovers to try. They addressed what I felt was the biggest drawback of the old ones which was the extra long mounting plates.
The stamping/engraving is going to be a personal decision if you like it or not. I wish their plating was a little more satin and less bright.
The large buttons aren't going to win over many who are looking for tradition but functionally they do give you something to get a grip on.
But the most important part, they are as smooth as silk. Each button turns with just the right amount of resistance and each feels exactly like the others. With the 18/1 ratio I don't see how you could improve on these. edit: For the price.

+1 Also the buttons are removable.

[Dfyngravity]

Alessi makes nice ones, but like mandroid said, they are up there in price too.

Here is a picture of the ones that will be on my new mando....

[45ACP-GDLF5]

The German-made Schallers are better made than Grovers. I've used them both and the Schallers have never given me any problems, whereas the Grovers have had slipping problems.

[Russ Jordan]

I had Elites that were very hard to turn. They were replaced with the new Golden Age and they work great (still has Elite stamped on the plate)

[Brad Weiss]

Andrew Mowry but some Grovers on my A model, and they are the smoothest turning, best holding tuners I've ever had. I think he may have modified them in some way, but I like 'em!

[Jim Hilburn]

I've used many sets of Schallers and Grovers and have never seen any evidence of Grovers slipping and to me they out-perform Schallers.
But that's neither here nor there since these new Grovers are totally re-engineered so none of us have any experience with them. I've included photo's of the old and new and you can see what I believe is the key to the smooth feel.
While the old ones had the end of the worm gear riding in the "cupholder" on the plate, the new ones have a set screw with nylon bushings. I think those screws are set to give that just right tension and feel. The old ones had a metal on metal contact and the new ones are riding on the nylon washers.
I'm no engineer when trying to describe this stuff but this looks pretty high tech to me.
I don't know how well the nylon will last but I bet at least as long as any metal on metal parts. They seem to have eliminated all the rough contact spots that tuners so often experience.

[Jim Hilburn]

I forgot to mention that they've gone to plated worm gears instead of the old black ones and have also eliminated the spacers between the button and the plate.

[Fretbear]

Originally Posted by Jim Hilburn

I forgot to mention that they've gone to plated worm gears instead of the old black ones and have also eliminated the spacers between the button and the plate.

Thanks for the first user reviews on them Jim; I tore down my set of 308's years ago and removed the black nylon spacers that were there between the gears and the plates. I don't even remember now why I did it, maybe I was just experimenting, but I never put them back, and they have worked great for years. Grover is wise to take such an active interest in us weirdos, because if folks can buy a smooth, reliable high-quality tuner for this kind of price either as a replacement part or for their custom builds, they certainly will.
Grover is proving that such a thing can be delivered at a profit for well under $100.

[grandcanyonminstrel]

The last set I bought from Nicolo Alessi cost me about $325; he built me a custom set of ten string machines for $400. Functional jewelry that you can get built in any configuration you can imagine. The only limitation is your creativity...

j.
www.condino.com

[Atlanta Mando Mike]

Well, went for the Grover 309's. Will post review once I get them on and play them for a gig or 2. Thanks for everyones input!!! Was very helpful.

[Rob Gerety]

Has anyone every tried the higher end Gotoh tuners? I had them on a guitar once and I thought they were very solid and very smooth - right up there with Waverly if not even a little smoother and more consistent. I think they marketing them as "Rock Solid" or something like that. At first they only had the technology in sealed back tuners - but mine were open backs. Very nice.

[acousticnotes]

Originally Posted by Atlanta Mando Mike

Well, went for the Grover 309's. Will post review once I get them on and play them for a gig or 2. Thanks for everyones input!!! Was very helpful.

I have the Grover 309's and find them to be very smooth over the older ones. Must be the new build style and the 18 to 1 ratio. Can't tell about longevity at this point there just to new. Time will tell. But I really like the feel of them. No slippage whatsoever.

[Fretbear]

It sounds like they have found a way to stabilize that backlash (slop when not under tension) problem which is one of the things that can make this style of tuner so temperamental.

[Jim Hilburn]

I have recently used a couple of sets of Gotoh. I found them to be very well built and they had a very smooth feel.
Gotoh's are riveted instead of cast. I've seen one example and heard of another where those rivets failed.

[mandroid]

Maybe a repair topic rather than new parts critique,
Had old tuners on my 20's A do something like that, loosen the connection , reset the head on the 'rivet as part of the shaft bearing' pretty simply .
A U shaped piece in the vise redirected the support to the edges of that piece so the hole that the shaft of the button/worm passes thru was not knocked out of round.

back in service again..

[Jim Hilburn]

I need to make a correction about something I said about the new Grover 309 tuners.
I said they had shortened the extra long plate. But after more careful measurement, I realized they are still the same length with just a different shape. And I still don't get why they feel they should be this much oversized.
Here's a picture of the Grovers next to the Schallers in a Waverly box.

[papa willie]

I'm just curious as to where Grover tuners fit into the scheme of things, as all post seem to mention Gotohs and Schallers. Doesn't Weber use Grovers on some of there instruments?

[acousticnotes]

Originally Posted by papa willie

I'm just curious as to where Grover tuners fit into the scheme of things, as all post seem to mention Gotohs and Schallers. Doesn't Weber use Grovers on some of there instruments?

Yes they do.

[Atlanta Mando Mike]

well, the arms of the grovers (connected to the buttons, probably not really called arms) where too short for my mandolin. Or at least the ones farthest from the nut are too short. Apparently Grovers are shorter than Schaelers so...I'm going to try the Schaellers now. Liked the grovers though, my instrument just must not be standard in headstock size. Its alsways something isn't it.

M

[Jim Hilburn]

Schaller F button shafts are much longer than anyone elses. Some builders cut them shorter to make them more vintage correct.
If the Grovers won't work you can be sure the Waverlies won't either. Sounds like your stuck with Schallers.

[tburcham]

Love Grovers...I have them on my Weber and my Silverangel...they are easy to turn and don't slip...that's all one can ask of a tuner!