Gibson Self-Tuning Guitar

[journeybear]

I had this idea years ago, but of course had no idea how to make it work. Now Gibson's gone and done it!

And since it's Gibson, could a similar mandolin be in the works?

[mandroid]

You apparently Don't have to tune the Guitar Hero controller either ..

[jim simpson]

What is the source of power for the tuners?

[journeybear]

Originally Posted by jim simpson

What is the source of power for the tuners?

Dunno - but since it's an electric guitar, some power must be diverted to their operation.

When I thought of this, I envisioned tiny tuning wheels near the bridge. They've somehow hooked up little motors to the existing tuners. I assume there are wires running inside the neck. I guess a little poking around the Gibson website is in order.

Meanwhile, I could watch those tuners turn all night. Just the first :30 is all I need to see ...

[Mike Bromley]

I can imagine all that extra mechanical gee-gaw weighting down the headstock...not six, but eight....times.

I think I'd be distressed ABOUT my master model....

And what about the odd time when you have a sticky nut slot or two?

Heck, why not just get a self-PLAYING mando!

[Bill Snyder]

Take a look at the first few threads in this list. Been around almost 2 years now and I have not heard anything about using them on mandolin.

[Chris Biorkman]

That might be the coolest thing ever. Well, the coolest thing besides indoor plumbing.

[journeybear]

Originally Posted by Bill Snyder

Take a look at the first few threads in this list. Been around almost 2 years now and I have not heard anything about using them on mandolin.

Dang! Thanks for the news flash. Still, first I've heard of it, which doesn't really mean much ... Except maybe that they aren't flying off the shelves like they'd hoped. If sales aren't good for such a guitar, they probably won't develop a similar mandolin. Especially since this is for an electric guitar, and who ever heard of an electric mandolin? OK, besides us.

Now, if they were to adapt this technology for acoustic guitar, then we might see something for mandolins. But since mandolins are the redheaded stepchildren of string instruments (not my opinion), the technological advances developed for guitars take a long time to find their way to mandolins.

OK, climbing down off my soapbox - for now ...

[jim_n_virginia]

Yeah I posted about this 2 years ago, hard to believe that much time has gone by already! LOL!

There was no mention at the time about making a self tuning mandolin and I haven't heard to much about the guitar version since then either so I assume that they were not all that popular or we would be seeing people use them by now.

I think the general consensus back then was that we didn't like them.

[journeybear]

Originally Posted by jim_n_virginia

Yeah I posted about this 2 years ago, hard to believe that much time has gone by already! LOL!

Yeah, I see that now. Hard to believe these things haven't caught on, and this is the first I'd seen of them. OK, maybe not so hard ... though it does seem so much in American culture is geared toward the lowest common denominator. Like electronic keyboards that modulate, so you don't have to learn keys, you just play in C and "capo up."

Originally Posted by Mike Bromley

I can imagine all that extra mechanical gee-gaw weighting down the headstock...not six, but eight....times.

Actually, according to the website, the tuners are slightly lighter than Gotoh tuners!

[Dave Hanson]

Just throw a Bluechip pick at it and tell it what to play and we're all redundant, 'aint technology wonderful.

Dave H

[barney 59]

Could you program the tuners to do something like change the tuning of an instrument in the middle of a song ?

[Steve L]

Hard to believe these things haven't caught on...

They seem to be largely sold out at dealers like Guitar Center and Musician's Friend. At what point has something caught on?

[journeybear]

Originally Posted by Steve L

Hard to believe these things haven't caught on...

They seem to be largely sold out at dealers like Guitar Center and Musician's Friend. At what point has something caught on?

From my frame of reference - when I've heard of them!

But seriously - if supply can't keep up with demand, they've caught on. When they graduate from "Limited Edition" status to regular production, they've caught on. When 60 Minutes does a story about them, they've caught on. When they become guitarists' first choice and they can't stop singing their praises, they've caught on. When they're no longer a novelty item but rather the industry standard ... well, you see where I'm going with this.

"Limited Edition" can be defined an a variety of ways. But if it generally means they made x number of these and wanted to see how many sold and how quickly before deciding if it was worth investing in tooling up for regular production, it could be that's where we're at right now. If enough people clamor for them they may deem it worthwhile to add them to their regular product line. Then again, it looks like they are available at hundreds of stores.

Originally Posted by barney 59

Could you program the tuners to do something like change the tuning of an instrument in the middle of a song ?

It looks like you can do exactly that, though it does take a few seconds. In fact, that is one of the strengths of this device - it looks like it comes with several preset open tunings, which presumably you can dial in on the fly. I wonder if you can program your own personal tunings, that is, something other than factory set ones.

I dunno for sure. Read the literature.

[JeffD]

I don't have a huge problem with them. Certainly at first they probably are just something else to go wrong. But once the technology is reliable... why not?

But I have to admit, especially with my bowl backs, I do enjoy tuning. I enjoy any interaction with them. I often go through all my instruments and just tune them all up. No playing, no noodling, just tune them up and put them back to bed.

[journeybear]

Originally Posted by JeffD

I don't have a huge problem with them. Certainly at first they probably are just something else to go wrong. But once the technology is reliable... why not?

I agree. It's just another option, which one may choose or not. I think their main selling point is the speed and ease of tuning, which should allow for changing into open tuning or from one to another in the middle of a song. Not that I have any interest in this - any of this, for that matter - but I believe a lot of people would find that useful.

That's a nice thing to do for your bowlbacks, keeping them in tune, happy and ready to make music. I used to go to my local music store every now and then to check on their mandolins, tune them up, play them a little, just so they wouldn't be hanging there, week after week, unwanted and neglected. I know, awww!

[bgjunkie]

I have a friend that works for Gibson that got one of the first 12 they made as proto-types. The electronics are in the body cavity and the signal passes up each string to the tuners, which is why (I guess) that you strum all strings open as the guitar tunes. If I remember correctly, they actually detune and bring the string into the correct pitch ( just like I was always told to do, but don't). If I played electric guitar, I wouldn't mind having this setup. This way I could actually learn songs with different tunings and not worry about retuning for one or two songs (not all of us can afford a guitar tech to do our tuning for us on our multiple guitars).

[Chris Keth]

I don't know if the idea would translate well to the mandolin. For starters, you have to have a battery on board the instrument with wiring going up through the neck. On such a small instrument, the only place for the battery is the sound cavity and the wiring may even hurt the structural integrity of that little neck.

Also, the tuners are very big, heavy, and deep. I wouldn't want eight of those on my mando headstock. See the difference:

Robot tuners:


Regular LP klusons:

[journeybear]

Originally Posted by PanaDP

I don't know if the idea would translate well to the mandolin. For starters, you have to have a battery on board the instrument with wiring going up through the neck. On such a small instrument, the only place for the battery is the sound cavity and the wiring may even hurt the structural integrity of that little neck.

Also, the tuners are very big, heavy, and deep. I wouldn't want eight of those on my mando headstock.

According to the website, the Powerhead Tuners weigh 46.5g each, compared to Gotoh tuners which weigh 49g each. I think they're dissembling a bit, despite their claim of using "lightweight metal alloy with satin finish," as that still works out to a bit less than 10 oz. But that really doesn't sound like all that much difference overall.

Also, whoever wondered about preset tunings - yes, it does come with six factory preset open tunings, which you can change to suit your preferences, and always restore to the default settings. Read the manual.

As to the question about whether this has caught on versus availability - the way Gibson has defined "limited edition" for this instrument is maximum of ten instruments per store. So if they are out at whatever store you went to, call around to other stores in your region. I don't know what the price is on these, but I'll bet they're not cheap.

Finally, as to when if ever this technology will be applied to mandolins - remeber where mandolins are in the pecking order these days for fretted instruments, even where Gibson is concerned. I don't have exact sales figures, but I'll bet electric and acoustic guitars are like Coke and Pepsi, duking it out for the top two spots, followed by banjos, mandolins, and way down yonder, electric mandolins - does Gibson even make them any more? What I'm getting at is, there are a lot of things that would have to happen before this technology would be applied to mandolins, first of which would be making it available to acoustic guitars.

So for us, for now, for a while, it's a pipe dream.

[alltunator]

I don't know if they were the first or not, but These Guys have been doing it at least since the early-mid '90s. Dave Beegle up in Loveland has been using their modified Les Pauls since then.

[journeybear]

Originally Posted by alltunator

I don't know if they were the first or not, but These Guys have been doing it at least since the early-mid '90s.

Hey, thanks for that info! They use a different approach, changing tuning by altering string tension at the bridge, as they say:

Does the Performer affect intonation?

No. Intonation is altered by changes in string length. The Performer changes tunings by adjusting the tension of the strings while keeping the string length constant.

What does the Performer system cost?

The installation price for the tuning system in a Les Paul or Telecaster style guitar is $3,399. The Stratocaster style guitar requires additional work and is priced at $3,899.

So, you'd have to be serious about this. This is a much smaller outfit, having installed their system on 50 instruments in 10 years. On the other hand, with an onboard computer, they offer up to 240 tunings, to Gibson's 6, plus standard. Still looking for Gibson's price ...

[Chris Keth]

Originally Posted by journeybear

Still looking for Gibson's price ...

The robot LP sold for a little over $2k at guitar center and the darkfire (has the tuning system plus some other cool electronic stuff) is around $3800 I believe.

[journeybear]

Originally Posted by PanaDP

The robot LP sold for a little over $2k at guitar center and the darkfire (has the tuning system plus some other cool electronic stuff) is around $3800 I believe.

Well, I'll be. 2K is borderline affordable. I thought for sure it'd be 3K or more.

Glad I'm not in the market for one. I might be tempted ...

[Chris Keth]

Originally Posted by journeybear

Well, I'll be. 2K is borderline affordable. I thought for sure it'd be 3K or more.

Glad I'm not in the market for one. I might be tempted ...

Unfortunately that's for the butt-ugly "robot" paintjob. I don't think it's available in a more classic LP finish.

[Moldrush]

The robots run off a rechargable battery and a computer in the body cavity and uses the strings for hot ground and info to the module on the back of the headstock telling the tuners (each with a small cervo motor) what to tune. the origanal one which you see in pictured in previous posts comes programmed with 7 different tunings and can be re programed tuning time 10 secs and is a learning system that gets faster the more it is used. Yes they did do other various colors.

The dark fire is the second generation robot which comes with 16 presets and will hold 500 different tunings if you can think of that many tunings. tune time 1-2 seconds (no joke) and is more acurate than the original and upgrades will be available for the originals. also through control knob you can tap the pick up coils put them in and out of phase to memic other guitar like texas blues, twang, L-5, acoustic and has a piezo bridge pickup. gotten to play both. the first one was cool til I played the Dark Fire.