Tuners for an A-jr

[Goodin]

Hello builders and repairers!

My '25 Gibson A-jr has become my main hatchet lately but I'm not happy with the original tuning machines. I LOVE the Waverly's on my Ellis and I am completely spoiled with them. So I was thinking of getting Waverly's for my A-jr, or possibly some Grover's to save some cash. Any suggestions? Are there any issues with switching out tuners? Should I get a pro to do it?

Thanks! Goodin

[danb]

Yes, have a pro do it. I've had shallers put on an Ajr snakehead before and they fit in the original busings. Prefer not to redrill if you can avoid it.

The old tuners can probably be rehabilitated too, with disassembly, cleaning, and lubrication they often spring back to life as new. Mostly it's gunk between the inside of the plate and the tuner shaft..

[Paul Hostetter]

I'm not so sure about the original tuners. I consider myself pretty good at reviving and tweaking old tuners, but those all-steel A-Jr gears are pretty uncooperative. Next stop is combing the market for a salvage set of Waverlys from another old Gibson. The only issue with new tuners (besides how out of place they can look) is getting some with the button shaft below the cog, like the A-5 gears here:



These are Gotohs, and of course you'd want them in nickel. Darryl Wolfe has a nice process for making them look old.

[Gail Hester]

I'm installing a set of worm gear under nickel Gotoh's on a 1924 Ajr right now. The spacing is modern and they are a good fit but you just have to match the worm over or under configuration to the hole pattern as Paul has pictured. It also requires drilling new mounting screw holes. I recommend having a repair person do the work since it seems other issues always come up.

[Lefty Luthier]

By all means have a pro do the task. When putting new tuning machines on an old instrument, there is always one peg that is wallowed out. On one old instrument I plugged the hole with a soft copper rod, then used my old drill jig to redrill the hole. Worked fine and the bushing hid the copper plug.

[Goodin]

Those are good tips thanks. I never would have thought about the over/under gear issue. I don't reckon I want to spend 500 bucks on Waverly tuners right now so I will go with something cheaper. Hey Gail what model Gotoh's did you use?

I dont mind drilling new mounting screw holes but plugging holes and drill jigs/redrills sounds a bit more modification than I want in case I (or someone else if I sell it) want to put the originals back on. Also, I really just hate to think drilling into an all original 80 year old instrument...it's just, sacrilegious.

Where can I find info about the Darryl Wolfe tuner distressing?

[Paul Hostetter]

Darryl's prescription should turn up in the archives, if Mike E. doesn't pop in with it for you.

Here's a page about Gotoh mandolin tuners. There are enough of the earlier ones still on the market (via Saga) that you might want to double-check which you get, because they'll want different ivoroid knobs from different sources (Stew-Mac has the good ones), depending.

Gotoh really only makes two types: cheap and simple, and fairly nice. Both work well, but one is appropriate for cheapos and so on only.

Gail - where do you get Gotohs these days?

[Goodin]

Any other suggestions for tuner brands?

[Paul Hostetter]

Just be careful of ones that look like "reverse" tuners, such as the Stew-Mac "Golden Age" tuners. They're quite nice, but they are modern "worm over" gears - you cannot (repeat: cannot) just switch one side for the other.

[Gail Hester]

I buy them from LMI, part number GMNIA, nickel with ivoroid buttons.

Here: http://www.lmii.com/CartTwo/thirdpro...andolin+Tuners

You can use the circuit board etchant from Radio Shack if you want to dull them up, it works fast so be careful. The old tuners I am replacing are very bright and shinny and look almost new so in this case it's no big deal. These Ajr tuners are notorious for having lots of backlash which these do making tuning miserable. There's a lot to be said for originality and I spend lots of effort towards that but many times players just want their mandolin to work well.

[Chris "Bucket" Thomas]

[QUOTE=Gail Hester;656988]I buy them from LMI, part number GMNIA, nickel with ivoroid buttons.

Here: http://www.lmii.com/CartTwo/thirdpro...andolin+Tuners

Would these be the correct tuners for a late 30's Gibson A50?
GMNIA “A”-style 4/plate, nickel-plated, ivoroid buttons

[Paul Hostetter]

A late '30's Gibson would have had the button shaft over the cog, like this:



It's not at all clear on LMI's page which they really offer. It looks like they offer the older "under" style, but their wording is unhelpful. Saga only offers the later "over" Gotoh A tuners; Roger Siminoff offers them both.

YPSMV (your post spacing may vary).

[MikeEdgerton]

For the life of me I can't find the thread where Darryl Wood described his process. I remember it, I just can't find it.

[Paul Hostetter]

For the life of me I can't find the thread where Darryl Wood described his process. I remember it, I just can't find it.

You mean Darryl Wolfe?

[Paul Hostetter]

Here's a start.

[j. condino]

I see a lot of old A mandolins that have been worked hard by poor or improper tuning machine replacements, most of which were unnecessary.

The over / under gear and post issue can easily be solved by using Schallers for the replacement without any new holes having to be drilled. The thing with Schallers is that they come in several configurations, all of which can be taken apart and reassembled in new configurations, and get the original holes to line up. The same issue regularly comes up when an unknowing guitar tech decides that he can work on a mandolin and improperly installs a set of machines ( with the gear / post configuration looking like they do on a guitar...)

Since I don't have them in front of me right now, here is the basic process. I regularly buy two sets when I have to do a replacement- one in standard configuration, and one in the reverse (LMI sells both). You should be able to completely disassemble them, and find one that will line up properly with all of the original holes. Typically, I take the reversed set, switch the plates left to right and right to left, and then it works out that you have a traditional turning set that fits the original hole configuration.... or something to that effect. I just did one last week...having both sets in front of me generally assures that I can come up with a solution. Checkout the thread I started a few days ago in regards to making a custom set of ten string machines out of standard Schallers for more ideas.

I'd offer up as much caution as I can send out against putting any new holes in the headstock, even if they are just for the screws. Half of the damaged headstocks that I see tend to be from improperly installed replacement tuning machines.

With everything vintage, you have to keep an open mind about getting an exact replacement fit with anything. I've had some very high dollar vintage instruments on the workbench that you can tell were made on a Friday afternoon at the end of a long workweek- horribly intonated and spaced fretboards, improper or misaligned tuning machine holes, and a host of other issues.

All of that said, if we somehow ruled out all of the messed up headstocks and poor tuning machine installations, it would make a noticeable decline in repair income for some of us...If you rally feel like you are in a fix, give Nicolo Alessi a call and he can make you anything you can dream up in a tuning machine.

j.
www.condino.com

[j. condino]

I'll revive Paul-o-matic machines from Paul's shop:

[MikeEdgerton]

You mean Darryl Wolfe?

His too.

Yup, that would be the right Darryl. I don't know where that came from.

[Paul Hostetter]

The over / under gear and post issue can easily be solved by using Schallers for the replacement without any new holes having to be drilled.

I wish they weren't butt-ugly machines. I wish their functional quality was consistent. Making decent replicas of vintage machines is not rocket science. Stew-Mac has proved that with their Golden Age guitar tuners. If only they came in the various useful permutations for mandolins. Alessi's talents are overkill for this sort of thing.

[Goodin]

Thanks for all the replies guys. I was thinking at first this was as simple as just unscrewing the originals and slapping on a new set but this is more involved than I had imagined. So, since he lives right down the road I'm having Mr. Dudenbostel set it up for me. I figure he could do a better job than I can . I will report back soon.