How to be a Mandolin Monster?

[Steve Gorman]

I am posting this in hopes that John McGann and Ted Eschliman or any of the
other Oracles of mandolin know-how will critigue it. I want and will master
the mandolin. I have been playing for 8 or 9 years now and am finally ready
and I think physically capable of getting really serious. In the last three
months I have been practicing just about an average of two hours a day. I
just read Bill Graham's story on Josh Hungate ( he started practicing two
hours a day) and feel like I am onto something. I work well in a structured
way so I really would like something that I can follow like a map. That's
why I have this schedule. Since I have the chance to actually have you guys
give me your thoughts for free I am going to jump on it. I made this up
on my own and am worried that I am missing something huge that I don't know
about that is going to cause real problems. This is all I do. I don't have
too much extra time to play beyond this. Some I find time to learn a new
song every other week or so. After three months of this I pick up new
songs pretty quickly but still don't completly understand them musically.
Also, I thrive on a challange with a goal. The noodling in my schedule is
fun but if there is something that should take its place please feel free
in mention it.


Thanks in advance for reading
this far and again if you could give your thoughts.


Here is my schedule of practice.

//Structure of practice
15min: Right hand pick stroke technique taken from Mike Marshall DVD set.
I start very slowly, like a meditation and slowly progress until my
wrist opens up and I then develop/practice patterns.
15min: Note/Finger Board recognition exercises. I do various things to try
to perfect my knowledge of the fingerboard, random finger placement
and quickly naming the note, randomly placing chords and naming the
note and position in the chord. My right hand is not used at all to
make sure it rests.
15-20min: Ted E. FFcP patterns in random postions. I start very slowly at the
beginning of the first pattern and by its end am up to speed. I count
the scale degree in my head as I play each FFcP pattern and am careful
to keep my fingers down, avoiding flying fingers and the pinky curl-up.
break (~5-10 min)
15min: Major/Minor scale exercises taken from Chris Thile's DVD. He teaches
several scale patterns that shift two to four times up the fingerboard.
I mix in the arpeggio's of each scale as I go, also from Chris' DVD. I
sometimes use a metronome.

15min: Ted E. FFcP arpeggio sets. Ted does the major7th, dom7th etc.
arpeggio's for what must be nearly all the keys. I am trying to commit
each of these to memory and am almost done with the major 7ths. I
plan to simply move to each new section, taking his book a page at a
time. (Ted if this was not your intention please correct me.)
15-20min: Chord scales taken from Mike Marshall DVD. Just the major scales. I
am trying to memorize the chords that make up each of the major
keys. I allow for improvisation here in the hopes that this will teach
me theory and musical structure.
break (15 min to several hours)
~30 min: Noodle during the day.

Sorry for the long post.

[Mike Bunting]

And how do you apply this, do you have a repertoire? I know that I'd like my students to practice with such diligence. I'd add some time for ear training, maybe work out some tunes by ear.

[pops1]

I like to play along with the radio, it makes me find the key and gives me practice improvising. maybe use some of your noodling time for this.

[mando.player]

While I'm not a monster, I think Mike hit the nail on the head. You should spend some time applying these skills to some tunes. Even if you just pick two of three tunes that you use as your "work bench". For example, I frequently use Autumn Leaves as a work bench tune.
1 - I know the tune and changes very well
2 - It's a sparse tune, the melody and changes have lots of space in them
3 - It covers the ii-V-I progression in both major and minor (cornerstone progressions in jazz)

I've transposed the song into different keys and try out concepts as they come up. Theory without context isn't of much use. I also keep a notebook of light bulb moments. I picked up a Moleskin sketch book that I add things to once I really grok the concept.

Lastly, if your not already doing so take some small breaks in that 2 hour period. For me, every 20 minutes or so I stop stretch a bit and check my tuning. In addition to the obvious physical break, it allows me to clear my head before moving on.

[Steve Gorman]

Thanks for the answers so far.

I have been playing for a while so I have a lot of tunes that make up my repertoire. The noodling consists of goofing off with song, some simple some more complex. I have been playing Soldiers Joy for years and practice improvising with it almost everyday. I have a couple of Bach pieces from the Mike Marshall DVD that I have been polishing forever it seems. The noodling is constructive from that sense but it is sort of free form. There is not song list I go through. Sometimes I learn a new tune if the mood strikes me.

[farmerjones]

Re: How to be a Mandolin Monster?
You cock your Stetson to one side. You step up to the microphone and you say, "WELL GOODMORNIN' CAPTAIN!" And you commence to mashin on it.

In all seriousness, do you hope to be a sideman, or are you working on a CD of your own? Sounds like you already know how to play the mandolin. You need to play, and i mean play amungst 'em. A fiddle or a mandolin or anything by itself; to study the monodynamicism, in my view, is a waste of a good picker. I can't always find time to play with other's as much as i can find time to practice, but Lord knows i try. Because the real sound is the collective sound. You can't throw yourelf a curve. You can't blend and unblend your beat and/or your volume by yourself. In my mind that's much more about being the monster.

[swampy]

Originally Posted by Mike Bunting

And how do you apply this

I agree. What is your end goal? To be a solo monster, a bandleader, the ultimate sideman? Try to put things into context. My brother spent years learning how to be a monster guitar player (Jazz) but then had to spend even more time learning how to apply it and how to be creative with it.

I never progressed faster on anything like I did with the mandolin. Why? Because I knew the next week I'd show up for band practice and I better have something to contribute. I better have perfected the old stuff, learned the new stuff and be able to throw in the heat when it was needed.

I'm a music teacher, and I always tell my students to figure out what their goals are and then we'll work on the tunes and techniques to help them get there. I love the FFcP stuff, and have only just started it fairly recently, however, if I had someone that wanted to play like Bill Monroe, there are a lot of other things I'd want them to learn first.

Having said all that. I like the schedule and the focus on individualized attention to various details. I would rephrase "noodling" to "improvising" or "playing tunes". In my experience noodling is like doodling, it's something you do with your hands while your mind is other wise occupied i.e. watching TV or talking on the phone in my case. A lot of times it simply equates to little more than finger exercise (Not to discount that value). Instead of noodling, thing about it more like working on your total sound. Putting all the pieces together: timing, technique, and tone while you have fun. This is what I do at the beginning and end of practice sessions. I play medleys, and phrases of various tunes, and concentrate less on what I'm playing and more on how well I'm playing it.

[jramsey]

What kind of monster would you like to be? I think this is an important question to ask yourself so you can tailor your practice schedule accordingly. If you want to be a bluegrass monster that's playing with a touring pro band, I would not only work on your mandolin chops, but also your vocal skill and songwriting (instrumental and vocal), as well as networking and promotional skills. If you want to be a classical monster, I would start working on a different techniques (such as duo-style), start increasing your memorized repertoire (Calace, mandolin concertos, etc.), as well as devote time everyday to sight reading at various skill levels. Jazz monster? Start transcribing horn solos to the mandolin and include these into your daily practice routine, as well as memorizing standard tunes out of the real book. Really, no matter what kind of player you would like to become, I would highly recommend the addition of ear training in the form of transcribing solos and licks. I think more that anything else, practice things that need to be practiced. If you've been playing Soldier's Joy for years, you've probably got that one down, move on to things that you can't play. Always have a practice piece that you can't play, so that you are always working toward something. Just my 2 cents.

[mandozilla]

Because the real sound is the collective sound.

Amen to that brother!

[JonZ]

I think you have a very good practice plan overall and that it will make you a very good all around player. The importance of learning to sight read standard notation, building repetoire, practicing improvising on songs and playing with other people have already been touched upon.

Given your two hour time frame, I don't know if my suggestion would be better than what you are already doing, but you might try substituting it in when something else gets boring.

I would suggest looking at some computer-based skill building.

Absolute Fretboard Trainer will help you to master the notes of the fretboard

Absolute Fretboard Trainer

EarMasterPro will improve your musical knowledge in a variety of areas

EarMasterPro

Both programs will interface with a properly conected mandolin.

[JeffD]

Originally Posted by farmerjones

Re: How to be a Mandolin Monster?
You cock your Stetson to one side. You step up to the microphone and you say, "WELL GOODMORNIN' CAPTAIN!" And you commence to mashin on it.
.

That is it exactly.

[JeffD]

Originally Posted by jramsey

What kind of monster would you like to be? .

I remember a quote from Thile, on some video, I think it was one of his performances on Woodsongs. Anyway he said (something close to) that practice needs to be towards a specific sound. You have to know what you want to sound like, and focus on moving towards that sound. He said lots of people practice a lot without knowing where they are going, and as a result waste a lot of time.

I don't have it exactly but that was the point. I will keep looking for the exact quote.

[JeffD]

By the way. Don't forget to enjoy playing.

[Steve Gorman]

I want to play like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdPZaQM3ouA

[JonZ]

One more thing I want to say is that I think your practice routine looks really good, and I envy you if you can keep up with it. I would be mindful of burnout though. Every once in a while it would probably be a good idea to take a break from your routine and work on something totally different. You might do a "Choro Month" or a "Cross Picking Month" or some other theme that will expose you to something new and keep you from getting into a rut.

My kids play fiddle and I got them playing conga drums for a while in order for them to be more mindful of rhythm. It seems to have done the trick.

[Jim Nollman]

as important as a practice regimen, I have found that getting together with other musicians with the same level of dedication, once a week is a real help. In my case, I have played mandolin for many years, although mostly jazz and blues, and in the recording studio. But two years ago, I got a new bug, and started learning non-standard fiddle tunes mostly on my own, by downloading onto my ipod and then playing along, with the earbud in one ear. It wasn't until I found a guitar, concertina, and fiddle to play with AT SPEED, that everything really started to come together. It's just so much easier to keep the critical energy bubbling continuously when you have other's to bounce off of. We played tonight, and someone started playing a tune i hadn't played in at least a year. But with all of us trying, the whole band came together on the correct melody by the second pass. You can't (or don't even think of) doing that on your own.

[Bertram Henze]

A monster, by definition, is a creature that frightens everybody but secretly just wants to be loved, i.e. trying to buy the right thing with wrong currency.

Music is not meant to be a gangfight for respect or for looking cool. Most successful music monsters manage to earn money and/or respect for some time but end up broke and lonely for a lack of real purpose. Life depending on what strangers think of you is life out of control, because you can't control strangers.

Not questioning your practising or playing, but if it's good it deserves a good purpose, and what better purpose can there be than simple happiness? ...which can be tested against playing with others, not to be better than they are but to fit in and enhance the overall result. That's what music is for, after all, and what it's good at.

Sorry for preaching, just couldn't hold back.

Bertram

[mandocrucian]

you play "the mash".......

[yoshka]

You need to play, and i mean play amungst 'em. A fiddle or a mandolin or anything by itself; to study the monodynamicism, in my view, is a waste of a good picker. I can't always find time to play with other's as much as i can find time to practice, but Lord knows i try. Because the real sound is the collective sound. You can't throw yourelf a curve. You can't blend and unblend your beat and/or your volume by yourself. In my mind that's much more about being the monster.

Well put.

[JeffD]

I have played mandolin for most of my life. And yea I wanted to be a monster at times. But being a monster in the field in which I am gainfully employed became more important (and time consuming). So I made the conscious decision that the mandolin was for fun, and that while I would work at it, I would never work harder than was fun. As a corrollory, I never want to be so good that it is nolonger fun.

For me, work skills are to make a living. Music skills are to make a life.

[JeffD]

Three little monsters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTHgD...eature=related

[Pete Martin]

There are many ways to get to your goal. The key is to find the way that works for YOU.

What has worked for ME:

1) Clearly defining what I want to sound like and pursue it as much as possible

2) Transcribing solos and studying why that solo appealed to me

Best of luck!

[Patrick Bouldin]

Hey Steve,

There's been a lot of good posts here. I also envy the 2 hours, my goal is one hour and I usually get it 4 or so times a week. But even so, my goal is to be an overall good bluegrass mandolin player/vocalist. So my personal schedule is like this:

5 min's warm up.
10 min's finger techniques (like up the neck exercises), plus scales in many ways.
15 min's memorizing two new songs per week (use guitar some here, usually record the rhythm on the zoom and then playback with the mando).
30 min's playing through EVERYTHING in my repertoire, but in rotation. I have a "do daily list", a "do weekly" and "do monthly". As you can surmise the do monthly's are ones that are totally nailed and I do them so I don't lose them.

Not only is my goal as stated with the band, but I also enjoy jams, so having a ready to go memorized repertoire makes for a lot of fun times. Because I enjoy the jams I usually play about 10 minutes out of the 30 with the guitar because as I'm sure everyone will agree here, if you're at a jam and folks don't know the song then you better play the guitar.

Let me say this - I don't know about you, but if I had the weight flipped (45 minutes of hard core technique and 15 minutes of fun), the I'd quickly grow tired of it all - so be careful. Have more fun time (whatever that is for you).

Patrick Bouldin
DFW area.

[Perry]

I think you need to ask this guy (Nash the Slash)

[MT_player]

I think you are trying too hard. Find some cool friends to jam with. Learn to play by just sitting down and playing by ear with others; the rest will come along by itself. Mandolin should be fun, good luck