Bowlbacks of Note

[brunello97]

Ciao, Carlo, patience is indeed a virtue when mando-shopping on the ebay. One thinks that surely all the great deals must have passed by, that every seller and buyer is highly educated to the worth of mandolins and that no deals might be had. But a watchful eye and quick hand still can yield good value. Our friends here, Martin and Allan, for example are certainly evidence of that, finding great deals through these auctions. Ebay UK can be fertile ground if one is careful and discerning. Ebay DE and FR, particularly FR, have been sleepers that very interesting instruments show up on. Why more great instruments don't come up for sale on the Ebay IT remains a mystery to me. But keep your eye out for nice Washburns, Martins or Vegas from the US. Bowlbacks remain highly undervalued here, and shipping costs from the US to the EU are not prohibitive. Please, keep us all updated on your search. I'm sure all the folks here with their radar out will pass along interesting options your way.

E buona pasqua a lei. Sono molto triste di sentire le notizie circa il terremoto in Abruzzo. Tutti noi negli Stati Uniti inviare i nostri migliori auguri per i nostri amici in Italia.

[Nox]

Originally Posted by Martin Jonas

Well, if it's any consolation, I don't think that Maltese mandolin was a big loss either.
Martin

Well, it a relief. It looked in great shape, and since i never seen mandolin from Malta, i played with the idea to buy it and found a beautiful instruments.

I Whis all an happy Easter-day!

[Nox]

Originally Posted by brunello97

Ciao, Carlo, patience is indeed a virtue when mando-shopping on the ebay. One thinks that surely all the great deals must have passed by, that every seller and buyer is highly educated to the worth of mandolins and that no deals might be had. But a watchful eye and quick hand still can yield good value. Our friends here, Martin and Allan, for example are certainly evidence of that, finding great deals through these auctions. Ebay UK can be fertile ground if one is careful and discerning. Ebay DE and FR, particularly FR, have been sleepers that very interesting instruments show up on. Why more great instruments don't come up for sale on the Ebay IT remains a mystery to me. But keep your eye out for nice Washburns, Martins or Vegas from the US. Bowlbacks remain highly undervalued here, and shipping costs from the US to the EU are not prohibitive. Please, keep us all updated on your search. I'm sure all the folks here with their radar out will pass along interesting options your way.

Mick, i can say that i'm spendig every day at least 4/5 hours on ebay. If you think that washburn vintage bowlback are good, i've saw some one on ebay a 1928 if i'm not wrong. The mandolin on ebay italia appears, but they are overpriced when good, and with 400$ you can only purchase a very low quality instrument. Anyway thanks everyone for the help, if someone see a good mandolin for sale on ebay, or in another store let me know.

Originally Posted by brunello97

E buona pasqua a lei. Sono molto triste di sentire le notizie circa il terremoto in Abruzzo. Tutti noi negli Stati Uniti inviare i nostri migliori auguri per i nostri amici in Italia.

Thank you so much for the kind words. Unfortunately as you probably know, has been a big disaster and it hurt.
I Wish you, to all forum members and to all the American friends an' happy Easter-Day.
Carlo.

[Jim Garber]

Originally Posted by lex-joe

I was wondering if anyone knew the price for a Pandini Mandolin?

The last time I checked -- a few years ago -- he was getting €2500. I am not sure what he is getting now. I also don't know if he makes a simpler mandolin than the ones he shows on his site. You can contact him here. His English is not that good, so be aware of that. Perhaps use Google translate.

Jim

[Jim Garber]

Carlo:
perhaps you shpould check with calace. Their most simple mandolins are reasonably priced. I think you said you would pay €600, well their Model 25 might not be much more than that: in the last price list iot was €700. I would contact them and find out the current prices.

I think you would do much better than with some vintage one from eBay in questionable condition.

[Nox]

Originally Posted by Jim Garber

Carlo:
perhaps you shpould check with calace. Their most simple mandolins are reasonably priced. I think you said you would pay €600, well their Model 25 might not be much more than that: in the last price list iot was €700. I would contact them and find out the current prices.

I think you would do much better than with some vintage one from eBay in questionable condition.

Well, my first intention was to spend no more than 600$.
With a lot of effort i can reach 600€ but not 700€.
If i'm not wrong Viktor payed his "Calace 24" less than 600€.
Tomorrow is not lavorative here, so if i take this decision i will be in the Calace shop on Tuesday. But i must find a way to pay the mandolin no more than 600€.
Everyone here retain that the base model of Calace (model 24) can be a playable instrument for many many years?

[vkioulaphides]

Ciao Carlo.

I have both good news AND bad news for you: my Calace Model 26 (i.e. the second-from-the-bottom) cost me 550 euros in 2004, then went up to 650, and now stands at 750! (Model 24 was always, and still is 50 euros less, and differs only in the floral design on the pickguard, which the "higher" model has, and Model 24 does not. Thus 500, up to 600, currently 700, from what I hear.)

As for the good news: I am happy with the instrument. It is not what I (or anyone else) would call a "great" mandolin, but it works very, VERY well. In the 5 years I have had it, the only "aging" damage it has sustained is in the (synthetic) pickguard: as it and the woods around it expand and contract at different rates in response to temperature changes, the pickguard has cracked and sunken in a bit in one spot. I consider such damage trivial. First of all, it has zero effect on the function of the instrument; when, eventually, pieces of the pickguard come unglued and/or become too crooked to stay in place, I will simply take the instrument to a competent luthier, who will presumable flatten them out on the heating-iron, and simply glue them back in. Effective that day, I will officially consider my 2004 baby a "vintage" instrument.

But if this is more than you can pay, so be it. Che c'è da fa'? There are MANY nice instruments around. Look around, "sharpen your criterion", and ask all the questions that come to your mind. We are all here to help you.

Brother Victor, M.A.S.
Fraternal Order of the Bowl

[Jim Garber]

Originally Posted by Nox

Well, my first intention was to spend no more than 600$.
With a lot of effort i can reach 600€ but not 700€.
If i'm not wrong Viktor payed his "Calace 24" less than 600€.
Tomorrow is not lavorative here, so if i take this decision i will be in the Calace shop on Tuesday. But i must find a way to pay the mandolin no more than 600€.
Everyone here retain that the base model of Calace (model 24) can be a playable instrument for many many years?

Perhaps you can work out a deal with Calace. Maybe they have a shop-worn model. Maybe they can work out a deal or a payment plan that will alolow you to own one.

I have played a few recent Calaces (including Victor's) and they are nice instruments and probably the best new bowlbacks for the money.

Victor and I both know a young woman here in the US who is ordering a Classico B and is picking it up in Italy whne she is there in a few months. She sent me the current price list (dated 2007 for some reason). here are the models listed for the mandolins:

LISTINO PREZZI
(Price - List)
--------------
ANNO 2007

---------- MANDOLINS ---------
type n. 24 Euro 700,00
" " 26 " 750,00
" " 13 " 1.080,00
" " 15 " 1.150,00
" " 16 Bis " 1.650,00
" Classico D " 1.980,00
" Classico C " 1.550,00
" Classico B " 1.120,00
" Classico A " 2.550,00
Hard-case x mandolin 100,00
Semi-hard case x m. 50,00
the following models are missing in the illustrated catalogue:

- type Classico D has the some channelled round bottom of Classico A;
head without engraved head. Ebony concert fingerboard with 29
freets under E.
- type Classico C has round bottom with 31 palisander channelled
ribs; concert ebony fingerboard with 29 frets under E.
- type Classico B has round bottom with 31 white maple not channelled;
concert ebony fingerboard with 29 frets under E.
- type Classico A has an engraved neck with: a) inside machine-head;
b) optional laterar side machine head;
- only on type Classico A, with extra price of Euro 300,00 is possible
to insert special inox 18/8 stell frets, more unconfortable,
but with a very long duration; only for concertist.
- only on type classico A, with extra price of Euro 300,00 is possible
to have a pearl decorated shield and ebony and pearl finger
board.

Anyway, my point is that you may get a decent instrument on eBay but might very well have to pay some more money to a luthier to make it playable. Maybe it is worth it to wait until you have enough money for that Calace?

[Nox]

@Victory i think there arent' other ways...honestly i can't spent 700€
Maybe i should buy one of those mass built mandolin, wich is funny, but all the italian store raised the price in the range on 60/100€ on these mandolin too.

Look around, "sharpen your criterion", and ask all the questions that come to your mind.

Uhm.....i could take some luthier lesson and then build my mandolin ?
No really Viktor, now i'm a bit upset.....i mean with 200€ you can take a piece of junk and with 700€ you can take a good mandolin. Why there is nothing in the middle?
I have seen a greek site that sells meazzi mandolin at affordable price maybe i should take one of these mandolin.
I'm lost.

Regards,
the cursed mandolinist.

[Nox]

Originally Posted by Jim Garber

Perhaps you can work out a deal with Calace. Maybe they have a shop-worn model. Maybe they can work out a deal or a payment plan that will alolow you to own one.

I have played a few recent Calaces (including Victor's) and they are nice instruments and probably the best new bowlbacks for the money.

Victor and I both know a young woman here in the US who is ordering a Classico B and is picking it up in Italy whne she is there in a few months. She sent me the current price list (dated 2007 for some reason). here are the models listed for the mandolins:



Anyway, my point is that you may get a decent instrument on eBay but might very well have to pay some more money to a luthier to make it playable. Maybe it is worth it to wait until you have enough money for that Calace?

Well, of course i could visit Calace, and explain him my situation, something like "I just have 600€. Anything for me?" Who knows.... or maybe i should just buy something a bit better than my actual mandolin, nothing of handmade indeed.

P.S.
Hey Jim i saw you page on myspace, or better i have heard "sogne di bimba" (i suppose it's you playng the mandolin) it's great, and wow you play very well, hope one day i will be able to reach your level.

[Nox]

Hello guys, what about those two mandolins? both are supposed to be Italian, unfortunatelly most of the information are in dutch!
Here the links
1
2
Found other mandolin in france
A neapolitan restored
Suggestions?

[Jim Garber]

Ciao Carlo:
The two German mandolins look Eastern European to me and not very good instruments, at least from the photos. The one in France looks nice but, as I said, it is very hard to tell what it actually needs to play well. You could write the seller and see if he actually knows what he is talking about. Also, tho that looks like it is a Vinaccia copy, I am not really sure what it is.

If you have your mind set on an older instrument, perhaps you should check out some Italian dealers. I don't know any of them very well, but perhaps they have something in your price range:

Mandolin makers/Dealers in Italy

[Jim Garber]

More for Carlo from Ebay Italy:

I don't know this guy, but he has quite a few mandolins for sale. If he is near you, perhaps it would be good to visit him:

eBay Seller in Pescara

Of those he has for sale, perhaps of interest (you could also make an offer):
Stridente (non-original tailpiece) This was made in Naples, probably the early part of the last century.

Goldklang German Embergher-style (sort of)

It looks like this guy gets old mandolins and restores them with newer parts. I don't know anything about him -- not my recommendation, but maybe worth checking out, esp if you can go and visit and try these or if there is some way you can return it if it is not good.

[brunello97]

Jim and Carlo,

Say what one might concerning David di Pescara's wishful pricing, his mandolins do appear to be in somewhat playable condition, if the neck photos are to be believed.

And there buried amidst those 'NON HA PIù CARTIGLIO INTERNO' (e forse di Catania, anche) is this from Giovanni Bartolotti, the first mandolin I have come across from Padova home of miei padrini (and Sant'Antonio, of course) which kind of makes it a trifecta for any good Catholic boy, this despite those fingerboard extensions that Victor loves so well.

Mick

Carlo, the French mandolin appears to be in good, though restored, condition and appears similar to the ubiquitous DeMureda/Lanfranco etc. mandolins that appear frequently on ebay.uk. If it is playable the 130E price sounds reasonable for the MOR quality. A far more reasonable price than the 300E asked for the Stridente in Pescara, in my view. Confirming the neck condition and playing action remains essential. (BTW that is German, amigo, Dutch remains unintelligible to me and most of my Netherlandish friends......)

[Nox]

Originally Posted by Jim Garber

More for Carlo from Ebay Italy:

I don't know this guy, but he has quite a few mandolins for sale. If he is near you, perhaps it would be good to visit him:

eBay Seller in Pescara

Of those he has for sale, perhaps of interest (you could also make an offer):
Stridente (non-original tailpiece) This was made in Naples, probably the early part of the last century.

Goldklang German Embergher-style (sort of)

It looks like this guy gets old mandolins and restores them with newer parts. I don't know anything about him -- not my recommendation, but maybe worth checking out, esp if you can go and visit and try these or if there is some way you can return it if it is not good.

That's why i never contacted him, this is what he does, purchase old mandolin and resell it restored. Jim to me the stridente looks overpriced, don't know about the embergher style. As i said i trust much more on the opinions of you all than on mine. Pescara isn't near to me, it's at least (driving very fast) 5/6 hours of travel, and the seller doesn't accept a return of the item. I wrote to the guy on the ebay france, asking him for bigger pictures with details on the neck, also in the description he says that the neck is perfect, action at 12th fret 2mm. I could also write to the italian dude, but i'm not sure about the mandolin, and about the seller

[Jim Garber]

I believe that Herwig Solists like this one are pretty decent mandolins. Martin, have you played these?

[vkioulaphides]

I have no direct experience with Meazzi mandolins, Carlo, although I am familiar with Musicorama, the Greek store that evidently sells them. They seem justifiably inexpensive.

Cheers,

Victor

[Nox]

Originally Posted by vkioulaphides

I have no direct experience with Meazzi mandolins, Carlo, although I am familiar with Musicorama, the Greek store that evidently sells them. They seem justifiably inexpensive.

Cheers,

Victor

Hey Victor, or better Maestro (i just realized you are a compositor).
OK i will not take in cosideration musicorama.
I don't know how much phone call i did in the last week, and how much time i've spent on ebay
Anyway i have taken my decision, since play the mandolin should be a pleasure, i don't think i should stress so much finding instruments, and trying to find as much money as i can to buy a middle/high level instruments. I have started with an 80€ instruments, now i want spent 600$ dollars for a mandolin, i will wait, and when i will find it i will take. I think this is the best approach.
The french guy will send me the photo of the mandolin tonight, i asked him for very big photo, and he wrote me that if my worries are for the neck, he assured me that is perfectly straight. Let's see what happens.

[Nox]

@Jim
i have contacted several of the italian luthier near my zone.
One offered me two option. The first a new mandolin, basic price 1000€, or since he has a lot of broken vintage mandolin, restore one of them, the base price is 600€.
Other asked from 1000€ to 1300€, not for my pockets right now.
The only one that i haven't contcated is Liuteria Scala And i will try this week.

@Mick
So in you opinion if the french mandolin is in perfect condition, how much is worth? There are still 6 days before the auction end, so i don't know how many peoples are looking at it.
is worth 200€ is worth 300€? 400€ is overpriced?

[vkioulaphides]

I agree on avoiding needless stress.

Also, while I am perfectly happy to be called by my first name and without any honorifics you are most welcome to my music for solo mandolin (see link below), which you can play on your current, or your next mandolin-- as long as you enjoy it! It will also not cost you anything.

http://www.paperclipdesign.com/vk/

Cheers,

Victor

P.S. The instruments of Liuteria Scala are beautiful, indeed, but I am ABSOLUTELY sure they are way above your price-range, Carlo. (Mine too, of course...)

[Nox]

Originally Posted by vkioulaphides

I agree on avoiding needless stress.

Also, while I am perfectly happy to be called by my first name and without any honorifics you are most welcome to my music for solo mandolin (see link below), which you can play on your current, or your next mandolin-- as long as you enjoy it! It will also not cost you anything.

http://www.paperclipdesign.com/vk/

Cheers,

Victor

P.S. The instruments of Liuteria Scala are beautiful, indeed, but I am ABSOLUTELY sure they are way above your price-range, Carlo. (Mine too, of course...)

I called you "Maestro" because i have heard "El malecón", and is really great!
Just for case i saw an'argentianian guy playing with mandolin a song called "El malecón", and after a bit on the right i've read a familiar name
I really like the rhythm, and the whole melody is really fantastic, however i think is a bit too difficult for me
I didn't know about the liuteria Scala, so their instruments are of high quality? better of Calace ? Praiano is not too far from me, and as bonus during the travel you can see the "Costiera Amalfitana", that is amazing.

P.S.
as i said, i should start taking luthier lesson

[Nox]

Originally Posted by Jim Garber

I believe that Herwig Solists like this one are pretty decent mandolins. Martin, have you played these?

Jim this mandolin seems in great condition. On the other hand the price seems a bit higher. I could make an'offer, or wait if the seller make it on auction. This seller is the same of the Miroglio. The first time the Miroglio was on "buy it now" for 699$, and was nt sold, after on the standard auction has been sold for something like 300$. So i don't know what i should.
Anyway i have the image of the mandolin on sale on ebay france, 3 images for a weight of 1MB, i don't know if i can attacch here. I will try to upload it somwhere. The seller assured me that the mandolin has been already well resotred and ready to play.

[vkioulaphides]

Thank you for your kind words, Carlo. The Argentinian mandolinist you heard is Sebastian Frego; Ralf Leenen has also posted the same piece on YouTube.

Now, back on topic: there is a demarcation, however blurred at times, between a small, ONE-luthier atelier (e.g. Tumiati, Pandini, etc.) and a workshop employing a number of workers (e.g. Calace). The former's products tend to be more expensive, because of the special labor issues involved.

I do not have any personal experience with the instruments of Liuteria Scala and therefore cannot compare them to Calace instruments; I get the impression, however, that they must be FAR above your price-range, Carlo. It would not make sense to put SO much work into an instrument, if ALL you could get by selling it was +/- 600 euros. No luthier could survive on that.

Cheers,

Victor

[Nox]

Ok,
the images of the mandolin on sale on ebay france can be found here Basically are the same of the auction but are much bigger.
What do you think?

[vkioulaphides]

I am troubled by the fact that the bridge seems to be sitting right ON the cant-- which, in turn, might indicate that there has been significant corrective adjustment to compensate for a warped neck, a sunken top, or both. Can anyone else see something I am missing?

Victor