Varnish Finish -- interesting short article on line

**scgc.om** · Apr-08-2009, 6:09pm

I thought this short article on Varnish Finishes at 12th Fret (Toronto) was a pretty good primer. "10% of the thickness but 30% of the weight" was certainly an eye opener!

http://www.12fret.com/new/Mandolins_...Finish_pg.html

What was missing (IMO) was just how f r a g i l e a varnish finish is. In my experience, any moisture left on the finish overnight will leave a mark. Also, if the player makes contact with the top (due to, say, "finger posting" or vigorous strumming), marks will be left on the mandolin.

I did not say permanent marks -- I gather (not from this 12th Fret article) that a varnish finish is much more repairable than nitrocellulose.

Your thoughts? Experiences? Who out there has a varnished instrument?

**Michael Lewis** · Apr-09-2009, 2:30am

Spirit varnish (shellac) is easily repaired with a bit of skill, but nitro lacquer is probably more forgiving and requires a bit less skill. Oil varnishes can be a bit more difficult.

**Ivan Kelsall** · Apr-09-2009, 6:08am

I have 2 Mandolins,one in each type of finish & i find exactly the opposite of what the OP says.This is MY experience others may find differently,but the 'laquer' finish on my Weber Fern shows up every mark from my wrist,fingers,hand etc.,while the varnish finish on my Lebeda seems to be totally impervious to marking. Looking at the varnish on the Lebeda,it does seem to be very thin & looks as though it could be fragile if scratched or hit with any force - that's how it looks,it might be as tough as armour plate, but i ain't gonna try it to find out !.The varnish finish is a dream to bring back to a nice shine when i clean it,whereas the laquer finish tends to be quite difficult. I get the overall impression that the laquer is somewhat softer than the varnish,
Saska

**Capt. E** · Apr-09-2009, 9:22am

In my last visit to Tom Ellis he mentioned that varnish is more transparent that laquer. Just pour a jar full of each and hold them up to the light. Laquer will obscure the figuring of the wood grain. One other significant reason to use varnish.

**Ivan Kelsall** · Apr-11-2009, 2:39am

The varnish finish on my Lebeda,does indeed allow the grain to show through much better,it's almost a 3D effect,a nicer finish in my opinion than laquer,
Saska

**tree** · Apr-11-2009, 7:37am

From the next to last paragraph of the article: "It is this oxidation and the resultant crystallization that can enhance tone by promoting lateral transmission of vibration."

I found that to be a bit of a stretch.

YMMV.

**sunburst** · Apr-11-2009, 8:19am

Originally Posted by Capt. E

In my last visit to Tom Ellis he mentioned that varnish is more transparent that laquer. Just pour a jar full of each and hold them up to the light. Laquer will obscure the figuring of the wood grain. One other significant reason to use varnish.

I think you are remembering wrong, I use the same varnish as Tom has on his mandolins. As it turns out, I have a jar of varnish and a jar of lacquer right now and they look like this:
Varnish on left, lacquer on right.

**sunburst** · Apr-11-2009, 8:23am

Clark, I found that whole last part of that paragraph to be more than just a stretch. I think it falls under the heading of "hogwash!".

**ellisppi** · Apr-11-2009, 9:45am

Thanks John, yea Capt got it backwards of course. The lack of crystal clarity and the yellowness are my 2 gripes against Behlen RH. Lot of BS in that article. My finish 6 sprayed coats of Behlen RH & 12-15 coats of Tru oil is only 2 mil at the most and probably cures to 1.5 mil over time. Also essentially all finishes polerimize over time and become 1 molecule. I think the OP was referring to shellac. My oil varnish finishes while soft at first become very tough, and oil varnish is not affected by solvents, or sweat like shellac is.