Bowlbacks of Note

[vkioulaphides]

Nice! I enjoyed both the instrument and the folk/improvisatory style of playing the mandolin, a bit as if it were a laouto, with the melody on the kantini (what French lutenists call chanterelle) and droning, mostly tonic/dominant lower strings. This sort of playing goes back not just centuries, but millennia! Thanks, Yianni.

Cheers,

Victor

[Nox]

Hello guys,
seems that my only chance to get a bowl back is to take a vintage, so i'm looking on ebay.
Does someone has information on Gennaro Maglioni? this is the item.
Doesn't seems in bad condition, what do you think?

P.S
Pls, someone help me to take a decent bowl-back around 600$ !

[Jim Garber]

Carlo: It looks decent. Contact the seller and find out more details or go there if you can. It looks like a DeMeglio style. I wonder if it has the side sound ports.

[Nox]

Carlo: It looks decent. Contact the seller and find out more details or go there if you can. It looks like a DeMeglio style. I wonder if it has the side sound ports.

Sorry my bad, i can't take it. The dude send the item only int the U.K and i'm in Italy. Maybe i could ask him, but looking on ebay i found another item a Miroglio.
What i should do? ask to the U.K dude, or follow the auction of the Miroglio?

[vkioulaphides]

What i should do? ask to the U.K dude, or follow the auction of the Miroglio?

Perhaps both. The de Meglio "clone" looks VERY nice, and I don't quite see why a seller in the U.K. would ONLY want to sell in the U.K. He has every interest in a broader pool of bidding, prospective buyers. Sure, ask him!

Miroglio mandolins are mass-produced, and come in numerous shapes and forms; this one you post is a quasi-Embergher (but not ~quite~ so, of course, considering the flat fingerboard, and SO many other elements). I am told that their tone tends to be rather thin, nasal even. I have no personal experience.

Martin Jonas, who posts frequently here, has experience with Miroglio mandolins; I think I remember him saying once that his mother owns one. Martin is German by birth, but lives in the U.K. He is a MOST helpful source of information regarding mandolin-related affairs in his adoptive homeland. I hope he chimes in during the course of this conversation.

My intuitive evaluation --which, of course, is nothing to rely on-- is that the first instrument would be the better one. The second one might be viable, but ONLY if it stays very, very cheap. The fact that you are excited about getting a nice mandolin, Carlo, should NOT lead you to rush into buying a bad one!

Cheers,

Victor

[Jim Garber]

Carlo:
We need to help you get a good bowlback! I have a few friends in Italy who might be able to help. None are mandolin dealers but might know of dcent quality instruments. I can ask.

Pretty amazing that it is hard to find a good Italian bowlback in Italy.

I agree with Victor and would ask the UK seller if he/she might consider shipping to Italy.

[Nox]

@Jim:
I asked the dude about the side sound ports and he said me that are present.
On the page he says that the neck is straight (he replyed to a question).
So i'm going to bid on the item. He said me that the only reason he listed the item avaible only for the UK, is the fact that the package will be more of 2 kilos and therefore expensive (30/45£).
Regarding the fact that seems difficult to find a good bowl back in Italy i will post a little resume tonight. And of course if you have some italians friends that can help me let me know

@Viktor
Thanks, i will focus more on the de meglio clone, but i will also follow the Miroglio, as you also noted, the guys says that the mand is in perfect state.
Let's see what happens.

And of course guys, thanks all for assisting me in this adventure, i really apreciate

[Nox]

Another question. The de Meglio clone seems has oly 17 fret, is a problem? due the shape of the scratchplate will be possible in future to mount a new fretboard?

[Bob A]

While I have instruments that have up to 29 frets, I'd say that 17 is reasonable for a midlevel instrument. I don't think it would be necessary or advisable to put a greatly extended board on a De Meglio; the cost might well exceed the value of the instrument.

[brunello97]

Another question. The de Meglio clone seems has oly 17 fret, is a problem? due the shape of the scratchplate will be possible in future to mount a new fretboard?

Nox, if you can obtain a SIDE view of the mandolin, or a measurement of the action at the 12th fret, it would do a lot to confirm the condition of the neck. With the short neck of these bowlbacks they very rarely tend to bow (as a guitar neck might) but rotate around the neck/body joint. They will appear to be straight to the inexperienced eye-if one just looks at the neck-but the raised angle renders them unplayable. It was common practice for Italian makers to use softwood for necks and cover them with an attractive veneer. This made the older bowls even more susceptable to this problem.

I agree with everyone here that the deMeglio clone is the better choice of the two you proposed, but I strongly urge you to visually confirm the condition of the neck rather than relying on a verbal description alone.

Good luck with it. The deMeglio I played (Victor's former one, as I understand) sounded wonderful, but did have mild neck/action issues. It this doesn't work out, $600 should easily net you a nice mid-level Vega bowl, with delightful sound.

Let us know how you proceed. (As you can tell a few of us around here are obsessed with these things.....)

Mick

[vkioulaphides]

... just back from St. John Passion, still a bit out of breath, but with SUCH glorious sounds still ringing in my ears!

If it was my de Meglio, then I ought to tell the full story. The ever skillful Tom Crandall (at Umanov guitars) GREATLY improved the action and playability of the instrument by a most innovative solution: he lifted frets 12 - 17 (!), shaved down the fingerboard so as to compensate for the slight warp of the neck, and then reinstated them. This brought the instrument to 99% accuracy, intonation-wise, and of course also softened the action. I sold it after I acquired my Calace, when it had fallen into disuse and *guilt* neglect. I trust it is a happy baby now!

Such wonders can, and do happen; I would not, however, advise against complete fingerboard replacement, for the reasons Bob mentioned above. 17 frets are adequate for much of the older repertoire, and of course for any and all folk-music one might ever wish to play.

Cheers,

Victor

[Nox]

Nox, if you can obtain a SIDE view of the mandolin, or a measurement of the action at the 12th fret, it would do a lot to confirm the condition of the neck. With the short neck of these bowlbacks they very rarely tend to bow (as a guitar neck might) but rotate around the neck/body joint. They will appear to be straight to the inexperienced eye-if one just looks at the neck-but the raised angle renders them unplayable. It was common practice for Italian makers to use softwood for necks and cover them with an attractive veneer. This made the older bowls even more susceptable to this problem.

I agree with everyone here that the deMeglio clone is the better choice of the two you proposed, but I strongly urge you to visually confirm the condition of the neck rather than relying on a verbal description alone.

Good luck with it. The deMeglio I played (Victor's former one, as I understand) sounded wonderful, but did have mild neck/action issues. It this doesn't work out, $600 should easily net you a nice mid-level Vega bowl, with delightful sound.

Let us know how you proceed. (As you can tell a few of us around here are obsessed with these things.....)

Mick

Thanks brunello, i will ask for a side photo of the mandolin, and i will ask him for the action at the 12 Fret.

[Nox]

Sorry just forgot one thing.
How much is worth the De Meglio Clone? so i know when stop bidding.
And also, everyone here agree that i should not follow the auction for the Miroglio? Right now the Miroglio is at 99$, and seems i great condition.
Again, thanks everyone i will keep you all updated.

[Nox]

@Brunello.
I just asked him for a side photo of the mandolin, and side photo of the neck.
I didn't asked him about the neck before anther dude asked hi the same thing

Can you tell me if the neck is perfectly straight ....... there are two ways of checking the first is to hold the mandolin on it's side and look along the fretboard as if you were looking along the barrel of a gun that will let you see if there is any bend. The other way is to measure the distance from the 12th metal fret (12th from the head of the instrument)to the bottom of the G string (thickest string)... if the neck is straight the distance should be around 2mm.

And the seller said that he checked and is perfectly straight.

[Martin Jonas]

Miroglio mandolins are mass-produced, and come in numerous shapes and forms; this one you post is a quasi-Embergher (but not ~quite~ so, of course, considering the flat fingerboard, and SO many other elements). I am told that their tone tends to be rather thin, nasal even. I have no personal experience.

Martin Jonas, who posts frequently here, has experience with Miroglio mandolins; I think I remember him saying once that his mother owns one. Martin is German by birth, but lives in the U.K. He is a MOST helpful source of information regarding mandolin-related affairs in his adoptive homeland. I hope he chimes in during the course of this conversation.

Yes, my mother does indeed have a Miroglio mandolin, and in fact it's an Embergher clone, too (although looking quite different from the one on Ebay). She bought it used some time in the 1950s when she joined a mandolin orchestra in Cologne and she played it as her main mandolin (albeit rather infrequently) for the next 40-odd years. It now has a nasty crack and would need to see a luther to make it playable. However, in the meantime she has the loan of four of my bowlbacks (a Ceccherini, a Vinaccia, a de Meglio clone and a Ferrari) and as all of them have a much nicer tone than the Miroglio, I don't think that will ever happen. The Miroglio intonated well until it broke, but had a timid and thin voice. No big loss.

Otherwise, i've just had a look on Ebay UK and DE for bowlbacks, and there is very little around right now, unusually so. Of the ones currently being offered, the Gennaro Maglioni is probably the best. It looks nice, but wiht de Meglio clones there's always the uncertainty of whether they only copied the looks of the de Meglio or the tone as well.

Martin

[Nox]

Martin Thanks for the post.
Right now i'm only looking at the De Meglio clone, i was attracted by the Miroglio due the good condition, but it's better to focus only on one item also considering the experience of the user on this board.
I also want tell Jim what is the situation in Italy right now
I've joined the world of mandolin about one month ago, so this is what i have understood in this window time.
Mandolin istructor usually suggest you to take a suzuki, and you can take it in any music store for around 500€ (but i have heard that are overpriced and are not great). For a new item there is Calace in Naples (not for my pockets right now), there are other luthier in Naples, but honestly i don't know a lot about mandolin so i can't undestand the value of an'item. Then we have musikala, but i haven't heard great things reagarding his product. And at least we have a lot of mandolin wich are supposed to be hadmade in Italy, but comes from China. A very simple example you can check on google for a Alfredo Privitera, it's incredible, the same mandolin is sold by various dealer from a price that goes from 130€ to 300€. The item is supposed to be handmade in Sicily, but as far as i know aren't handmade and aren't Italian. What is funny, is that this mandolin has been discussed in this thread in the 2006, here the same item is also on ebay (with the live performace of the famous Enzo Greco...just kidding i don't know him :D ) and to me doesn't seems nothing of special (i got tired i have seen it plenty of time in various store).
In Naples i have also see a man who has damaged vintage mandolin, which you can purchase in conjuction with a restructuring.
And at last plenty of mandolin on ebay Italia, most of the mandolin are cheap vintage mandolin like "Stridente", "Il Globo" or other mandolin without scroll, but the sellers says that is worth like a Vinaccia a Calace or a Puglisi.......
And that's all.

[lex-joe]

I was wondering if anyone knew the price for a Pandini Mandolin?

[Nox]

Good Morning Guys!
The dude sent me the side photo of the De Meglio Clone.
If the price remain low for both, i could take both mandolin, the Miroglio actually is at 97$ with one day to the end, and the Maglione is at 36£ with 2 days to the end. What you all think? On the maglione from what i can see the doesn't have the tailpiece, it's a problem? And last question, until how much i have to bid? Thanks everyone!

[brunello97]

Carlo, it is a little hard for me to tell, given the low image quality of the photos, but the action is looking a bit dicey on the Maglioni-particularly tracking the G strings along the frets. Another common failure point with bowlbacks is for the top to sink in above the sound hole, changing the neck angle. Again the neck will appear straight. Personally, I'd want to have a clear measurement of the action at the 12th fret to be buying 'blind' like this. Something in the 2-3mm range. Maybe somebody with better eyesight can offer a better read. BTW, these mandolins do not have a tailpiece cover common to many flat and archtop styles. The guscio di tartaruga style sagoma below the bridge is their to help keep your lace shirt cuffs from tangling in the strings.

Mick

[Nox]

Carlo, it is a little hard for me to tell, given the low image quality of the photos, but the action is looking a bit dicey on the Maglioni-particularly tracking the G strings along the frets. Another common failure point with bowlbacks is for the top to sink in above the sound hole, changing the neck angle. Again the neck will appear straight. Personally, I'd want to have a clear measurement of the action at the 12th fret to be buying 'blind' like this. Something in the 2-3mm range. Maybe somebody with better eyesight can offer a better read. BTW, these mandolins do not have a tailpiece cover common to many flat and archtop styles. The guscio di tartaruga style sagoma below the bridge is their to help keep your lace shirt cuffs from tangling in the strings.

Mick

Mick,
now i don't know...The seller says that the action at 12th fret is 2mm. I agree the photo are in low quality. I really don't know, on the Miroglio the seller offers a refund if you are not satisfied with the item.
Maybe i should wait and look for other mandolins?

[vkioulaphides]

I agree with Mick on the action, that just looks high... The silver-gray background is not help, either.

Considering the... *ahem*... uninspiring tone-quality of Miroglio mandolins, I would cast my own vote for the Wait and See approach.

Cheers,

Victor

[Nox]

I agree with Mick on the action, that just looks high... The silver-gray background is not help, either.

Considering the... *ahem*... uninspiring tone-quality of Miroglio mandolins, I would cast my own vote for the Wait and See approach.

Cheers,

Victor

And then i will wait

[vkioulaphides]

The "wait and see" approach should not make you sad, Carlo.

You could, for example, go out and buy the Miroglio, say for $100-200-something. That would be fair value for this instrument, assuming that it also works as well as it looks. My own caveat emptor would be this: you seem like someone who truly loves the mandolin, and someone who will probably continue to play the mandolin for many years to come— perhaps for life!

With that in mind, you should be realistic: if you get the Miroglio today, you will probably want to upgrade to a better instrument within 2-3 years. That is not a bad plan. But you should decide these things AFTER you take a close look "inwards", asking yourself what would make you happy.

Or you could wait, and move directly to your "next" instrument.

Cheers,

Victor

[Nox]

Victor,
you know how is, i was enthusiastic to take a new mandolin, and maybe i'm a bit hasty.
Anyway i will follow your suggestion and i will wait. Speaking of the miroglio it was previoussly on sale for 699$ and that's why i was tempted. Right now i play with this mandolin which is a bit horrible.
So which is better right now? my indecent tenson or the Miroglio? maybe i can take it for 200$ and i would be happy, and of course i would be very sad to see in a week a new auction with something of better (De Meglio, Puglisi, etc..).
Anyway 10 days ago i didn't bid for this mandolin and i'm sure has been a big mistake, while i'm not an'expert i'm sure that someone on the board will tell me that was a good mandolin (looks very nice).
i Will wait! and i will continue to stress you all
Felice Pasqua a Tutti!

[Martin Jonas]

Well, if it's any consolation, I don't think that Maltese mandolin was a big loss either. The photos on the de Meglio clone are difficult to interpret, but I agree with Mick that the G string in particular looks very high (even allowing for the fact that some of those lines on the photos are shadows thrown by the flash against the background). I wouldn't worry about the tailpiece cover; most de Meglios are missing it and it's no big deal.

Martin