Old Bowl Back Mandolin

[Dennis Russell]

DEar freinds, a freind came by last week that had a beautiful bowl back mandolin. one side of peg head was broken, I told him I could fix it. he wanted to know where it originated and what is its value, he purchased it at a yard sale. The back is layers of Rosewood of some sort, very nicely polished, it has a scalloped rosewood wrap on bottom the top is spruce but has intricate scaloped pick gaurd and has small herring bone binding. inside only markings I could find is a small paper piece with faded writing that reads American conservatory does anyone know who built this and what is its value, the mandolin is in very good condition, the owner would also like to know where a case for this instrument can be obtained
Thankyou all for your help.................Dennis in Az

[Jim Garber]

American Conservatory was a mid-level brand of Lyon & Healy. They are decent instruments but usually not unbearingly valuable esp if it needs work. They can be nice sounding tho and could be a good choice for playing.

Your choice in the US for bowlback cases: either Eastman fiberglass (I think Gianna Violins and Eldery carry them still around $160), chipboard cases (Elderly) or a sturdy Korean foam one from Hobgoblin Music.

Is the back actually scalloped or just flat ribbed? Higher end mandolins sometimes have the ribbed fluted (carved out).

[Youda]

Here's a post elsewhere about the American Conservatory:

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Antique-M...d-Mandolin.htm

I would add that the AC's came in several different grades from the lowest priced to the top-of-the-line. Without a photo, or more description, I couldn't tell you which one you have there. The "tell" on the mandolin is usually the number of ribs on the back, if the skirt is bound or not, and the kind of tailpiece that was used. The tone of the top-of-the-line mandos is usually very nice, better than some of the other mandos produced at that time. As far as cases, you probably won't be able to find a vintage in any decent condition. They were all made of a kind of cardboard material covered with different fabrics, with leather handles. Unless they were stored meticulously well, most of these old cases have disintegrated beyond repair. I think you will find that most of the cases available to the USA for bowlbacks cost about $100-$150. Occasionally, I've seen Elderly Instruments carry a chipboard case for bowlbacks priced in the $45-$50 range. The ACs are nice little instruments...but with everyone wanting the scrolled f-style mandos for bluegrass these days, these wonderful instruments are sadly ignored.

[Jim Garber]

Hah... that is my post at All-Experts! I am hearing an echo of my own voice coming back to haunt me.

[Youda]

Originally Posted by Jim Garber

Hah... that is my post at All-Experts! I am hearing an echo of my own voice coming back to haunt me.

[Dennis Russell]

The Scallop I am describing is the part that wraps around the back where the tail piece is the scallop narrows out as it wraps around both sides and dimishes as it goes toward the neck, I am not very good of giving descriptions and I dont have knowledge using a camera to send photo,s
THe pieces on back are twenty I counted and awhite or yellow color wood as filler between rosewood, each strip is about half inch wide at its widest the rest narrows as it graduates toward the neck. there are two wide sides that is where the sound plated comes in contact. The spruce top slopes toward the tail piece just behind the bridge.........................Dennis

[Youda]

Dennis, I'm not an expert on these old bowlbacks. Jim Garber has much more knowledge than I do. I only know what I discovered by scouring the web, and reading all I could, about the American Conservatory mandolins since I bought one from an old friend. I do know that the lower-end ones had a tailpiece that looks like a fan. The upper-end ACs have a two-part hinged tailpiece that covers where the strings hook onto the tailpiece. With the 22-ribs, that would put it at least in the mid-range price. Any decoration on the headstock, and/or fretboard? Lower-end have nothing on the headstock, and just dots for fret markers. Middle and high end have other shapes and designs. What you are calling a scallop, I describe as a "skirt," but it may have an official name. The soundboard is canted, sloping toward the tailpiece, is the same on all the bowlbacks.

The ACs have a great variety of details and styles on them. They were all made by different manufacturers, for Lyon & Healy, who put the AC label in them. So, there's a great variety of "American Conservatory" mandolins.

Get her fixed up. I hate to see these old instruments thrown aside.

[allenhopkins]

Here are some photos of a fairly nice American Conservatory bowl-back for sale by Mark Silber. You can compare it to yours; the pictured one looks a bit fancier than your description but has a comparable number of ribs in the back.

[Dennis Russell]

Thank you everyone for your help ,Brazillian Rosewood, That is unique, I am not a expert on rosewood identification, I have some east indian rosewood, I know it isnt the same. I am going to tell my customer to hold on to the instrument...............thanks again...............Dennis in Az

[Rick Turner]

If it's rosewood and it's more than about 60 years old, it's more than likely Brazilian. That's what they had; that's what they used; no big deal. Same as ivory. Same as genuine tortoise shell. No big deal...then...

[keef]

Originally Posted by Youda

The ACs have a great variety of details and styles on them. They were all made by different manufacturers, for Lyon & Healy, who put the AC label in them. So, there's a great variety of "American Conservatory" mandolins.

All AC bowlback mandolins- were made in L&H's own factories, not by other manufacturers.

[keef]

Originally Posted by Rick Turner

If it's rosewood and it's more than about 60 years old, it's more than likely Brazilian. That's what they had; that's what they used; no big deal. Same as ivory. Same as genuine tortoise shell. No big deal...then...

More than likely, but not always. The premium Gibson, Regal and (the Gibson and Regal made) Washburn dreadnoughts were made for a period in the late 1930s with Indian rosewood - check out the UMGF for details and scientific proof....

[Youda]

Originally Posted by keef

All AC bowlback mandolins- were made in L&H's own factories, not by other manufacturers.

That's new to me. There is such a big difference in every AC I've seen! Different fretboard design, different back pieces, difference tailpieces, different tuners, etc. Did they change their design every year then?

[brunello97]

Originally Posted by Youda

That's new to me. There is such a big difference in every AC I've seen! Different fretboard design, different back pieces, difference tailpieces, different tuners, etc. Did they change their design every year then?

Was it Mike or Pablo who described Kalamazoo mandolins as being made from sweepings from the Gibson factory floor? (A great quip, which might explain why the top on my KM11 is collapsing and the neck is amazing to play. Oh, and then there's the sound.) Perhaps a similar philosophy was applied to the AC line, which in some examples appear second-rate to the Washburns and and in others, equal or better.

Mick

[Rick Turner]

The Chicago manufacturers often subbed out various bits and pieces of the instruments to other factories and workshops. It was very much like Matsumoto, Japan in the 1970s in that respect. There's a store in Wisconsin that has a bunch of pin-routed inlay samples found in a barn, for instance, and there were specialists here and there doing runs of parts for different manufacturers.

[Youda]

Thanks! That gives me a little better history of my AC! Yes, I've seen some obviously bottom-of-the-heap ACs that really don't live-up to the AC name, let alone Lyon & Healy...then I've seen some really beautiful bowlbacks with the AC label. That explains it! Thanks, again!

[keef]

Originally Posted by Youda

That's new to me. There is such a big difference in every AC I've seen! Different fretboard design, different back pieces, difference tailpieces, different tuners, etc. Did they change their design every year then?

AC bowlbacks were made between the 1890s and 1924. The lines consisted of 5-10 models at any time, and the designs (including the hardware) were updated very few years. So you can find a great variety of AC styles that were made throughout these three decades.

The AC flatback mandolins were in my opinion made by Regal, just like the Washburn flatbacks. I have never seen a bowlback made by the post 1908 Regal company, and assume that construction of these instruments was too complicated for the low tech operation that Regal was until the 1930s. Regal's own brand flatbacks are identical in construction and design to their AC and Washburn branded cousins. I would guess though that the design of these flatbacks was created by Walter Kirk, chief designer of L&H, given the visual similarity with his other creations for L&H.

[21A4]

I am just about finished with restoring an old bowl back, should be ready to string this weekend.Has any one heard of "Maravigna Vincenzo" that's the name on the tag inside. I couldn't find any numbers or a date, so it probably is just a production model. It was a very enjoyable challenge from the start but very rewarding.If any one has heard of the make drop me a line. I will post before and after photos when done.
JG