Gibson Headstock Logo

Harlan_55 · 04-06-2009, 08:14 AM

Howdy folks,

I recently bought a A-style blonde flat-backed mando. The case is ancient, the mando has a nice mellow bell-like tone. The logo on the headstock is " GIBSON " not " The Gibson". The preivous owner claimed it was a 50's 40 Gibson. I looked through the F holes to see if any other information was inside, found nothing.

So my question is, twofold. (1) Were Gibson mandolins sold with just the name on the headstock, or was " The Gibson " their only logo ?

(2) Ideas about what it might be if not a gibson ?

Don't have the ability to post a photo at the moment, so to forestall the inevitab le repsonse, will have to use the english language to pass along inforamtion as best as possible.

I have done several searches as I thought I remembered a discussion about Gibson headstck logo's, but have struck out. Maybe one of you more tech savvy nice persons can direct me !!!

Thanks

Harlan

mandozilla · 04-06-2009, 08:30 AM

Hello there Harlan and welcome to the Cafe!

Yes, Gibson used just 'Gibson' on some of their mandolin headstocks at vaious times.

When exactly they did this I can't help you there but there are some knowledgeable folks who will fill in the details for you I'm sure.

sunburst · 04-06-2009, 08:31 AM

Many Gibson instruments had no "the". I'm not good at remembering dates and periods, but "the" was only used early in the history of the company...until recently. (Perhaps if production speed increases it will become "teh" ?)

Harlan_55 · 04-06-2009, 09:33 AM

Whew !! Thanks for the quick replies. John you get a prize for best sense of humor "Teh Gibson-Indeed " !! Had me snorting coffee :-D From looking at photo's, my best guess is that it is most likely from early 50's. Short neck flat laminated back, closed tuners. B ut that is from the truly uninformed consumer...

Any one else's feedback, thoughts, suggestions, expertise would be greatly appreciate.

Harlan

Ray(T) · 04-06-2009, 10:40 AM

..... and some of them (like my 1915 "A") didn't have anything written on the headstock!

allenhopkins · 04-06-2009, 11:01 AM

By the end of the 1920's, mandolins were labeled "Gibson" rather than "The Gibson," at least some models. Before that, "The Gibson" went from being slanted on the peghead, to being straight across. On less expensive models, "Gibson" was painted on with a silk-screen process, rather than inlaid. High-end mandolins into the '40's had a script "Gibson" inlaid, straight across the headstock. Sometime between that period and 1954, when my F-5 was made, the script inlay was replaced with a block-lettered "Gibson." This was inlaid in more expensive models, applied as a decal in less expensive ones. When Gibson started consciously trying to re-create mandolins from its "golden era," they went back to the "The Gibson" slanted logo; I suppose this probably began with introduction of the F-5L model in 1978. (Real Gibson experts on the Cafe can catch me up on this.)

You can find a very useful listing of Gibson serial numbers, and quite a few related pictures, at The Mandolin Archive.

MikeEdgerton · 04-06-2009, 11:58 AM

With that said there are a ton of fake Gibson mandolins out there with simply Gibson on the headstock. If your question is one of authenticity you're better off posting a few pictures. Simply knowing that some Gibson' mandolins didn't have the "The" in the name doesn't authenticate the mandolin.

It sounds like it might be an A40 if it has a flat back.

Does it look like this?

lenf12 · 04-06-2009, 12:19 PM

That would be A-40N for "natural" (not sunburst) finish.

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

MikeEdgerton · 04-06-2009, 12:46 PM

Quote:

That would be A-40N for "natural" (not sunburst) finish.

As the OP described it as a "..a A-style blonde flat-backed mando...The logo on the headstock is " GIBSON " not " The Gibson". The preivous owner claimed it was a 50's 40 Gibson..." I'm pretty sure that might be what he has but again, without seeing it it's just a guess.

Harlan_55 · 04-06-2009, 04:22 PM

Thank you Allan and Mike for such a well written posting that gives great background.. I will post a photo at another time, perhaps later this week. From your descriptions and information, I do believe the mando is a Gibson A40. The logo " Gibson" is silk screened at a slight angle across the headstock. Only the face has binding, the bottom is unbound.. the tailpiece is pretty rusted with the hooks on the side of the bottom so that the strings are bent coming over the tail.

Again thanks for the informative responses and I will follow up soon.

Harlan

f5loar · 04-07-2009, 12:18 AM

The problem I am having with it being a late 40's or 50's
A40N is he says it has a flat back. Every A40 or A40N that I have seen does have a carved arched back. It's not flat. There were some flat models in the 30's/40's. Could it be that with a refinished by factory in 50's with new logo?
So much speculation can go on here with no photo.
Post a photo front and back and ask again. And usually every post war A40N I've seen does at least have the FON stamped into the back as seen through the lower F hole.
Have you looked in there all around that F hole with a flashlight for such a number? This would help date it.

f5loar · 04-07-2009, 12:33 AM

By the end of the 1920's, mandolins were labeled "Gibson" rather than "The Gibson," at least some models. says AllenHopkins
Well not exactly. Not sure where you got your info. on the history of the Gibson mandolin logo but it ain't what I've known all these years. On mandolins the "The" was dropped around 1934. It went from fine script to thick script before 1942. Most were straight across but some were at a slant. (I have a '41 at slant). After the war when mandolin production resumed around 1948 they start using the postwar logo of Gibson in block lettering in both pearl inlay and gold decal. In 1970 with major changes to the mandolin line the "The" was reintroduced along with a new style pearl script logo in the F5 and F12 models. The A5 and A12 models had only Gibson in the new script. Then in 1978 with the new F5L the prewar 20's "The Gibson" script was brought back which continues today expect for models like the Sam Bush.

allenhopkins · 04-07-2009, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by f5loar

By the end of the 1920's, mandolins were labeled "Gibson" rather than "The Gibson," at least some models. says AllenHopkins
Well not exactly. Not sure where you got your info. on the history of the Gibson mandolin logo but it ain't what I've known all these years.

Thanks for chiming in; I hoped some real experts would add the benefit of their experience.

I went by the images in the Mandolin Archive, where this Gibson A, marked "Gibson" only, is ID-ed as "1928." Here's another, with a slightly lower serial number, also labeled "Gibson."

I know that higher-end models continued to be labeled "The Gibson," but if the Archive's dating system is to be believed, at least some of the lower-end models were marked "Gibson" only in the late '20's.

Overall, however, I do defer to F5Loar's greater knowledge of Gibson mandolins.

woodwizard · 04-07-2009, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by f5loar

Then in 1978 with the new F5L the prewar 20's "The Gibson" script was brought back which continues today expect for models like the Sam Bush.

And maybe the A9 & F9 that also do not have the "The"

Harlan_55 · 04-07-2009, 11:31 AM

Thank you F5 for such a clear historical review. Until I can post a photo, it will be an uncertain guess on my part. The information everyone has provided has helped my limited education, and I appreciate the sharing of your knowledge. At first, I had wondered if I had a knock-off or faked instrument, yet it has that classic sound that was the real driving force to purchase. I am convinced it is a Gibson, from what I have read it is most likely a post war low end plain jane model . Being rather plain myself, it fits me well !!!

Photos by weeks end, I hope. Thank you for your generosity !!

Harlan

kinnjohn · 04-07-2009, 01:04 PM

Harlan 55:I have a late forties A40, and your mando and mine seem excactly the same.(mahogany back, only top binding, "Gibson" logo and closed tuners.) Did you mean "flat-back" as opposed to "bowl-back"? Cause I think they all have a carved back.
Mine has a deep sound and lots of volume. No beauty, but lots of sound for the money, I think.

f5loar · 04-07-2009, 03:59 PM

You didn't really say A's or F's in your observation. When you said the F5L was the first to reissue the "The" again I assumed you only wanted F information and since 1978 was not the year they did that I felt compelled to inform. Since the F's is considered the standard of the mandolin world I was thinking in Fs only. A's are another animal. Some low ends didn't even get a logo at all. Some painted on , some decals, some pearl inlays. While the F's are a little easier to pinpoint a date line , the As are all over the place. Not so easy to figure out. 50's no problem.
Just when you think you got it figured out the next years model undoes it. Banjos dropped the "The" in 1925.

MikeEdgerton · 04-07-2009, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kinnjohn

Harlan 55:I have a late forties A40, and your mando and mine seem excactly the same.(mahogany back, only top binding, "Gibson" logo and closed tuners.) Did you mean "flat-back" as opposed to "bowl-back"? Cause I think they all have a carved back.
Mine has a deep sound and lots of volume. No beauty, but lots of sound for the money, I think.

A bowlback is an entirely different animal than an arched back. Gibson never made a bowlback mandolin as far as I know.

The specs of the A-40 are as follows.

F holes, arched top and back, laminated mahognay back with cross brace, clamshell tailpiece cover, single-bound top, rosewood fingerboard, dot in lay, natural or sunburst finish. Available 1948 to 1970. I'm not sure he has an A-40. A picture of the front and back would help.

04-06-2009, 08:14 AM	#1
Harlan_55 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Richmond VA Posts: 23	Gibson Headstock Logo Howdy folks, I recently bought a A-style blonde flat-backed mando. The case is ancient, the mando has a nice mellow bell-like tone. The logo on the headstock is " GIBSON " not " The Gibson". The preivous owner claimed it was a 50's 40 Gibson. I looked through the F holes to see if any other information was inside, found nothing. So my question is, twofold. (1) Were Gibson mandolins sold with just the name on the headstock, or was " The Gibson " their only logo ? (2) Ideas about what it might be if not a gibson ? Don't have the ability to post a photo at the moment, so to forestall the inevitab le repsonse, will have to use the english language to pass along inforamtion as best as possible. I have done several searches as I thought I remembered a discussion about Gibson headstck logo's, but have struck out. Maybe one of you more tech savvy nice persons can direct me !!! Thanks Harlan

04-06-2009, 08:30 AM	#2
mandozilla Mark Evans Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Simi Valley, Ca Posts: 1,282	Re: Gibson Headstock Logo Hello there Harlan and welcome to the Cafe! Yes, Gibson used just 'Gibson' on some of their mandolin headstocks at vaious times. When exactly they did this I can't help you there but there are some knowledgeable folks who will fill in the details for you I'm sure. __________________ "You can pick your friends, and you can pick your nose, but you can't wipe your friends off on your saddle."

04-06-2009, 08:31 AM	#3
sunburst Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Virginia Posts: 7,560	Re: Gibson Headstock Logo Many Gibson instruments had no "the". I'm not good at remembering dates and periods, but "the" was only used early in the history of the company...until recently. (Perhaps if production speed increases it will become "teh" ?) __________________ John Hamlett www.hamlettinstruments.com

04-06-2009, 09:33 AM	#4
Harlan_55 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Richmond VA Posts: 23	Re: Gibson Headstock Logo Whew !! Thanks for the quick replies. John you get a prize for best sense of humor "Teh Gibson-Indeed " !! Had me snorting coffee :-D From looking at photo's, my best guess is that it is most likely from early 50's. Short neck flat laminated back, closed tuners. B ut that is from the truly uninformed consumer... Any one else's feedback, thoughts, suggestions, expertise would be greatly appreciate. Harlan Last edited by Harlan_55; 04-06-2009 at 10:38 AM. Reason: spelling

04-06-2009, 10:40 AM	#5
Ray(T) Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: High Peak - UK Posts: 440	Re: Gibson Headstock Logo ..... and some of them (like my 1915 "A") didn't have anything written on the headstock!

04-06-2009, 11:01 AM	#6
allenhopkins Mando accumulator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Rochester NY 14610 Posts: 4,893	Re: Gibson Headstock Logo By the end of the 1920's, mandolins were labeled "Gibson" rather than "The Gibson," at least some models. Before that, "The Gibson" went from being slanted on the peghead, to being straight across. On less expensive models, "Gibson" was painted on with a silk-screen process, rather than inlaid. High-end mandolins into the '40's had a script "Gibson" inlaid, straight across the headstock. Sometime between that period and 1954, when my F-5 was made, the script inlay was replaced with a block-lettered "Gibson." This was inlaid in more expensive models, applied as a decal in less expensive ones. When Gibson started consciously trying to re-create mandolins from its "golden era," they went back to the "The Gibson" slanted logo; I suppose this probably began with introduction of the F-5L model in 1978. (Real Gibson experts on the Cafe can catch me up on this.) You can find a very useful listing of Gibson serial numbers, and quite a few related pictures, at The Mandolin Archive. __________________ Allen Hopkins Gibsn: '54 F5 3pt F2 A-N Custm K1 m'cello Natl Triolian Dobro mando Victoria b-back Merrill alumnm b-back H-O mandolinetto Stradolin Vega banjolin Sobell'dola Washburn b-back'dola Eastmn: 615'dola 805 m'cello Flatiron 3K OM

04-06-2009, 11:58 AM	#7
MikeEdgerton Moderator Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 8,471	Re: Gibson Headstock Logo With that said there are a ton of fake Gibson mandolins out there with simply Gibson on the headstock. If your question is one of authenticity you're better off posting a few pictures. Simply knowing that some Gibson' mandolins didn't have the "The" in the name doesn't authenticate the mandolin. It sounds like it might be an A40 if it has a flat back. Does it look like this? Attached Thumbnails

04-06-2009, 12:19 PM	#8
lenf12 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 408	Re: Gibson Headstock Logo That would be A-40N for "natural" (not sunburst) finish. Len B. Clearwater, FL

04-06-2009, 04:22 PM	#10
Harlan_55 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Richmond VA Posts: 23	Re: Gibson Headstock Logo Thank you Allan and Mike for such a well written posting that gives great background.. I will post a photo at another time, perhaps later this week. From your descriptions and information, I do believe the mando is a Gibson A40. The logo " Gibson" is silk screened at a slight angle across the headstock. Only the face has binding, the bottom is unbound.. the tailpiece is pretty rusted with the hooks on the side of the bottom so that the strings are bent coming over the tail. Again thanks for the informative responses and I will follow up soon. Harlan

04-07-2009, 12:18 AM	#11
f5loar Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Salisbury,NC Posts: 2,944	Re: Gibson Headstock Logo The problem I am having with it being a late 40's or 50's A40N is he says it has a flat back. Every A40 or A40N that I have seen does have a carved arched back. It's not flat. There were some flat models in the 30's/40's. Could it be that with a refinished by factory in 50's with new logo? So much speculation can go on here with no photo. Post a photo front and back and ask again. And usually every post war A40N I've seen does at least have the FON stamped into the back as seen through the lower F hole. Have you looked in there all around that F hole with a flashlight for such a number? This would help date it.

04-07-2009, 12:33 AM	#12
f5loar Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Salisbury,NC Posts: 2,944	Re: Gibson Headstock Logo By the end of the 1920's, mandolins were labeled "Gibson" rather than "The Gibson," at least some models. says AllenHopkins Well not exactly. Not sure where you got your info. on the history of the Gibson mandolin logo but it ain't what I've known all these years. On mandolins the "The" was dropped around 1934. It went from fine script to thick script before 1942. Most were straight across but some were at a slant. (I have a '41 at slant). After the war when mandolin production resumed around 1948 they start using the postwar logo of Gibson in block lettering in both pearl inlay and gold decal. In 1970 with major changes to the mandolin line the "The" was reintroduced along with a new style pearl script logo in the F5 and F12 models. The A5 and A12 models had only Gibson in the new script. Then in 1978 with the new F5L the prewar 20's "The Gibson" script was brought back which continues today expect for models like the Sam Bush.

04-07-2009, 11:31 AM	#15
Harlan_55 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Richmond VA Posts: 23	Re: Gibson Headstock Logo Thank you F5 for such a clear historical review. Until I can post a photo, it will be an uncertain guess on my part. The information everyone has provided has helped my limited education, and I appreciate the sharing of your knowledge. At first, I had wondered if I had a knock-off or faked instrument, yet it has that classic sound that was the real driving force to purchase. I am convinced it is a Gibson, from what I have read it is most likely a post war low end plain jane model . Being rather plain myself, it fits me well !!! Photos by weeks end, I hope. Thank you for your generosity !! Harlan

04-07-2009, 01:04 PM	#16
kinnjohn Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Norway Posts: 143	Re: Gibson Headstock Logo Harlan 55:I have a late forties A40, and your mando and mine seem excactly the same.(mahogany back, only top binding, "Gibson" logo and closed tuners.) Did you mean "flat-back" as opposed to "bowl-back"? Cause I think they all have a carved back. Mine has a deep sound and lots of volume. No beauty, but lots of sound for the money, I think.

04-07-2009, 03:59 PM	#17
f5loar Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Salisbury,NC Posts: 2,944	Re: Gibson Headstock Logo You didn't really say A's or F's in your observation. When you said the F5L was the first to reissue the "The" again I assumed you only wanted F information and since 1978 was not the year they did that I felt compelled to inform. Since the F's is considered the standard of the mandolin world I was thinking in Fs only. A's are another animal. Some low ends didn't even get a logo at all. Some painted on , some decals, some pearl inlays. While the F's are a little easier to pinpoint a date line , the As are all over the place. Not so easy to figure out. 50's no problem. Just when you think you got it figured out the next years model undoes it. Banjos dropped the "The" in 1925.