Question about tremolo.

[Jim Garber]

Classical tremolo technique preparation consists basically of playing up and down strokes in a steady rhythm. Marilynn Mair (pp.22-24) takes her prep exercises from the older Branzioli method but it is exactly the same as most of the other classical methods I have seen.

This could easily be applied to bluegrass tremelo as well.

Frankly, if you are having some trouble with this, I would suggest taking a lesson with a good teacher as the ideal (if you can).

However, Nox, if you are only playing for a few weeks, you need to get your other techniques down. I would not worry too much about tremolo yet.

[Nox]

Originally Posted by Jim Garber

Classical tremolo technique preparation consists basically of playing up and down strokes in a steady rhythm. Marilynn Mair (pp.22-24) takes her prep exercises from the older Branzioli method but it is exactly the same as most of the other classical methods I have seen.

This could easily be applied to bluegrass tremelo as well.

Frankly, if you are having some trouble with this, I would suggest taking a lesson with a good teacher as the ideal (if you can).

However, Nox, if you are only playing for a few weeks, you need to get your other techniques down. I would not worry too much about tremolo yet.

Jim i got the the Marilynn Mair book today (now i'm full of book). Right now i'm not having problem at all, and believe it or not, i'm doing fine with tremolo
I think that everyone has his method, anf his believes, as an'example on page 17 of the Marylinn book she say to hit only one string with the upstroke. On page 22 she explain her vision of tremolo, dowstroke made with a drop lift and upstroke hitting only one string, she also suggest you to made the upstroke less louder then the downstroke.
My tremolo, is different, it's controlled on both the dowstroke and upstroke, i try to make the same range of movement for the upstroke and for the dowstroke, same speed, same intensity, after the dowstroke just after hitting the string on the bottom i start the upstroke, and just after hitting the top string i go back for the downstroke, when this happen i can hear a very nice sound. Also she use the Mnunier style, she use the pinky finger as guide for the tremolo, and she also hold the pick using a sort of Munier style.
I don't know which is the right way, the only thing that i can do is try and see what happen.
For now i will stop buying books, and i will study for at least 6 months to see what happens. Maybe after this period i will try to get in touch with a teacher and check with him if i i have developed bad habits.
But if we read again this thread, everyone has a different opinion, a different style, so the best bet in my opinion is to start practicing the tremolo and pick the one style, the best that works for you and avoiding unnecessary confusion.

[Youda]

Originally Posted by Nox

Of course everyone can have his opinion, but honestly i never heard about Cristofaro or La Ricca.

Some of these I mentioned where the "bibles" of mandolin teaching when mandolins had such a big popularity boost in the late 1800's and early 1900's. May nor not be relevant today, but I tend to consult them as a primary source for technique. Of course, mandolin playing has come a long way since then, being played in ways those early masters never considered. They wouldn't have even thought of a "chop" for instance.

Originally Posted by Nox

I think that both Munier and Ranieri are very popular, and both introduce the tremolo quickly. Of course if you start training your tremolo after learning staccato and arpeggio, it will take more time to develop it.

My comments about waiting to introduce the tremolo until a littler later was motivated by the very real problem with right-hand control of the pick. Unless there has been some previous guitar playing/practice, then a beginner who has never had any musical training previously is going to have problems with the quick, smooth and fine motor skills (no matter what variation of tremolo is used) that is needed to be developed. Other kinds of notes can help develop these and prevent some bad habits from developing with the tremolo, and "prepare" for the tremolo.

Originally Posted by Nox

Also we must consider wich kind of music we play. I don't think that in bluegrass or jazz music you use often tremolo, in classical music you use often tremolo. From my opinion i think that tremolo exercise help you also developing a good upstroke, and upstroke and dowstroke exercise help you with tremolo. As Munier explain, the study of tremolo and staccato must go hand in hand.

So true...about the kind of music. I have to break with the established authorities here, though, about the staccato. The staccato is a great thing to learn, and can help with a quick pick...but, I don't like a tremolo that sounds anything like a staccato. IMHO, a tremolo should sound as closely as possible to a bow stroke across the strings, or like the sustain pedal on the piano...with never a "sharp" sound like a staccato. I try to make the tremolo with the up and down strokes so fast that there is little or no degrade of the tone before the next stroke is made. I liken it to the beating of a hummingbird's heart, or the flap of its wings that go so fast that you can't see the individual motion of up and down. If I can hear separate tones of the up/down stroke, that isn't a tremolo, to ME. Again, that's just my opinion on how a tremolo should be played. I'm sure others will disagree.

[Alex Orr]

Originally Posted by Nox

I don't think that in bluegrass or jazz music you use often tremolo.

Can't speak for jazz, but that's just not true in bluegrass. True, everyone has their own style, but... If you consider Bill Monroe the starting point for authentic bluegrass mandolin then you learn tremolo is at the heart of bluegrass mandolin. Bill's right hand and his aggressive tremolo playing are touchstones of the genre. I will say that current trends in bluegrass mandolin playing seem to favor lots of notes over frequent uses of sustain via tremolos (note-y bluegrass mandolin playing frequently annoys me). My personal opinion is that this is a reflection of the impact of guitar flatpickers on mandolin players, although I have no real evidence to back that up. In any event, bluegrass mandolin is rooted in extensive, aggressive, and often extremely challenging use of tremolo.

[Mike Bunting]

Originally Posted by Alex Orr

Can't speak for jazz, but that's just not true in bluegrass. True, everyone has their own style, but... If you consider Bill Monroe the starting point for authentic bluegrass mandolin then you learn tremolo is at the heart of bluegrass mandolin. Bill's right hand and his aggressive tremolo playing are touchstones of the genre. I will say that current trends in bluegrass mandolin playing seem to favor lots of notes over frequent uses of sustain via tremolos (note-y bluegrass mandolin playing frequently annoys me). My personal opinion is that this is a reflection of the impact of guitar flatpickers on mandolin players, although I have no real evidence to back that up. In any event, bluegrass mandolin is rooted in extensive, aggressive, and often extremely challenging use of tremolo.

I heartily agree, it is often pointed out that the style is based on fiddle playing and Monroe tremeloed to mimic the bow.

[JeffD]

Originally Posted by Alex Orr

If you consider Bill Monroe the starting point for authentic bluegrass mandolin then you learn tremolo is at the heart of bluegrass mandolin. Bill's right hand and his aggressive tremolo playing are touchstones of the genre. .

Absolutely!

[Jim Broyles]

It seems that many guitar players coming to the mandolin neglect tremolo as a technique for drawing additional sound from the mandolin. Every great bluegrass mandolinist incorporates tremolo into his or her playing and some songs cry out for it.

[modgar]

I hope this is related to the topic. Is the tremolo achieved by means of wrist movement or is the movement at the elbow? I start trying to work up to a tremolo the people teach it, I start with a wrist movement but when I reach a certain speed the it becomes an elbow movement.

Also if the tremolo starts on an upbeat (an and) do I start with an upstroke?

Thanks,
Gary

[Jim Broyles]

There's some good info on tremolo here.
I can't think of a time when a tremolo would start on the and, but Prof. McGann says he starts all his trem with a downstroke, including the upbeats.

[modgar]

Thanks for the link Jim. Tremolo starts on the downstroke. Now is it a wrist or elbow movement? I've seen it both ways.

Thanks,
Gary

[Jim Broyles]

mod, do a search on the forum, there has been a lot of discussion. Short answer - it's both. The motion is not completely unlike but not exactly like shaking out a match. The motion is much shorter and a not as exaggerated. You don't move only the wrist and you don't move only the elbow.

[modgar]

Jim, you've been very helpful.

Thanks,
Gary

[ald]

"I think that everyone has his method, anf his believes, as an'example on page 17 of the Marylinn book she say to hit only one string with the upstroke. On page 22 she explain her vision of tremolo, dowstroke made with a drop lift and upstroke hitting only one string, she also suggest you to made the upstroke less louder then the downstroke".

I have that book and I obviously haven't read it carefully (haven't really been through it yet) because I didn't notice the bit about hitting only one string. What would be the advantage of that over other ways of achieving a tremelo?