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#26 |
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...but that's just me
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,522
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John, thanks for sharing this. There is a lot of points mentioned I sort of always knew without having words for them.
Dagger and DanaDP, there is an interesting thing about the seriousness of music on one hand and the seriousness of a job on the other. My parents, both classical musicians, had their reservations when I chose to be a physicist - especially my mother had imagined I would sing parts like Siegfried in Richard Wagner operas (which give me dry heaves until today). I chose the part of reality I can do best and earn money in. But I do play music to serve that other indispensable spiritual part of reality (because real it must be, if it can create visible and audible things like tears and laughter; Nietzsche put in in different words, but I can agree with him). But then again, my parents would never have considered the music I am playing as "serious". I don't care. There are other famous examples of the role of music to help us if we are trapped in hopeless situations. There were those musicians who played until the end on board the Titanic. There were the early christians singing in the roman circus when the lions came in (at least that's how I saw it in a movie with Peter Ustinov, don't know if it's history). That example about the fighter pilot had me thinking - it appears that the information given in words plus the music form a complete story, one part feeding the brain, the other feeding the spirit; you need both to get the full experience. When performing, I used to think "why tell about it first, doesn't the music say it all?" I have to reconsider that. Bertram
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the world is better off without bad ideas, good ideas are better off without the world |
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#27 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Greenbelt, MD
Posts: 128
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Thanks for sharing that John. It has expressed in words what I have felt for many years. Although most of us do not make a living playing music, it is important for us to be playing and sharing it on some level. I have witnessed the power of music which has united people who would otherwise have been contending with one another.
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#28 |
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Thomas "Skip" Kelley
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Thomasville,NC
Posts: 1,256
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John, thanks for sharing that very moving piece! When I perform with our group, we like to give as much history as we can for each song and the audience always seems more connected. This really put performing in a new perspective for me. Thanks!
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#29 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,058
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I can't help wondering how many people chose not to pursue their dreams for a more "secure" profession and now find themselves with nothing to show for it but a mouthful of economic ashes. What's a sure thing these days? I'd rather struggle with the circumstances of my own choices than someone elses. I understand the practical aspect of these decisions, but every path has it's thorns.
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Steve |
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#30 |
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Registered Axe Offender
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,739
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I'd seen this a few weeks earlier after being post on a different instrument list. I suppose it's an effective piece of career-related motivational promotion/hyperbole, but every school brings in that sort of thing for commencement or graduation ceremonies, seeking to reinforce the validity of the professions they promote, whether it's business, law, medicine, English lit, welding...... It would be a lot more direct to just have the band or orchestra play Queen's "We Are The Champions" . (I think chapter 8 ("All About Music") in The Real Frank Zappa Book is just a valid as a viewpoint.)
Sure music can have influence around the edges, on individuals. A certain song or record may help someone through difficult times. Then again, another song could influence a borderline case to go ahead and commit suicide ("Gloomy Sunday") or go create mayhem ("Helter Skelter"). It can be a great "propaganda" tool for established power structures (national anthems, approved nationalistic music ala totalitarian regimes, etc) or revolutionary movements, and for promotion of all sorts of political, economic, and religious agendas in between. For corporate commerical advertising (the importance of superior jingle writing!) vs. grass roots advocacy. Steve Earle, Jackson Browne, Bruce Springsteen or Toby Keith, Hank Jr. Ricky Skaggs. Pete Seger and Woody Guthrie or "Bob Roberts". Pick an issue and you'll find an artist that reflects your views or is diametrically opposed to it. I don't think music has any more overall influence than any other art form (cimema, photography, literature, art). Does "Imagine", "Get Together" or "For What It's Worth" or some classical chamber piece have more influence than some scientific breakthrough (for good or bad in the long term), or some invention, or some big legal precedent setting case , or the lone gunman? It's all "the butterfly effect" in the end. Myself, I find it increasingly hard to view the profession of musician seriously. It's pretty self-indulgent, for the most part. Plunking on metal strings strung over a wooden box, or blowing into a metal/wood tube or beating on the tubs? ![]() "Have a good time, all the time!" - Viv Savage (Spinal Tap) And "songwriting".........? "I wrote a song about it. Like to hear it? Here it go!" - Calhoun Tubbs (In Living Color) It seems, to me, to be a baffling mystery as to why listening to a series of sounds can produce mood altering effects. I play certain tones and/or make certain sounds, it makes you trance out, or feel good, or it makes you feel bad, makes you want to kill yourself, or rob a bank, or want to procreate, or.... If it is done well, then it's really just a branch of sorcery (and that also includes all forms of religious music). ![]() "I am the Lizard King, I can do anything!" So.... good luck climbing the Stairway to Gilligan's Island!
Last edited by mandocrucian; 04-02-2009 at 10:15 AM. |
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#31 |
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Hipster wannabe
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 425
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Thanks for a very moving essay. I also don't totally agree with the 'music as a basic need for survival' and the seriousness of it all. In tough times, most of us are willing to forgo a lot of music to put a roof over our family's heads, pay medical bills, bury our loved ones, and so forth. But music as a way to make sense of the world - makes sense to me.
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Dan P, Calgary, Alberta |
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#32 |
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Registered User
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I'm interested on how people come down in this thread between being really moved and having to point out that the essay doesn't touch on the cold hard facts of the music "business"(get the money). Both are valid points coming from different perspectives.
The one constant from either perspective is that music can touch people on an deeply emotional level and this is true in all cultures. |
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#33 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Invergordon,Scotland
Posts: 857
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Hi 250sc,
I was quite moved by the essay. I'm not sure what you entirely mean by the 'get the money' remark, but I take it to mean doing music to make money rather than because you are in some way driven by the music itself. My concern is rather the opposite. That you choose a career in music because you want to save the planet/ follow your dreams etc and end up broke and disillusioned. Having said that, I would hate to dampen that youthful feeling of hope which I can still relate to.
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David A. Gordon |
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#34 |
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Registered User
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Dagger,
You interpreted my comment correctly. I wasn't applying any judgment to it. I was just interested that some people took the essay for what it was, a single perspective of music and the power it can have to reach people while others commented that the perspective might have been a bit idealistic in that it didn't touch on the practical fact that supporting yourself as a musician isn't that simple and idealism doesn't often translate into putting food on the table and a roof over your head. Simple as that. |
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#35 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Invergordon,Scotland
Posts: 857
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I agree with that.
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David A. Gordon |
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#36 |
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Registered User
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Wow.
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#37 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2
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There are scholars who have concluded that music was part of the magic that earliest humans practiced which later evolved into the various cosmologies and religious belief systems. As noted in the article, music has been an integral part of social functions -- which often are part of religious ceremonies such a marriages, circumcisions/naming rituals, induction into an adult community et al. Compartmentalization of music into just a performing art or passive entertainment is primarily a later Western development (such as court composers and musicians). It stands to reason that music is an integral part of human development and civilization.
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#38 | |
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Registered User
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Quote:
As much as I admire (and envy) the level of talent professionals have, on some level I'm incredibly grateful I can follow my passion without having to think of it as a business. |
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#39 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2
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Hi there,
I was made aware of this thread thru the APM discussion newsgroup. I feel authorized to come in because I bought a mandolin two months ago. I would like to add some spices to my guitar music. I don't know how to play it really, but things are on their way. Be aware that english is not my first langage, so there will be some weird expressions and errors here and there. I just wanted to add my own little story, and it will be my presentation to the community at the same time. I had been moved by the source text of this thread. Music has always been part of my life as long as I can remember. I learned myself guitar first, then later in the 70's, fiddle and banjo. (I participated to the folk revival trend in France at the time) Then I stopped playing during 20 years. Four years ago, my then 8 years old son received a cancer diagnosis. After three months of a train wreck of exams, diagnoses, and surgeries, life was only emergency, fear, and pain. Two days before Christmas, I asked to the medic if my son could be out of the hospital just to spend a few days at home, with the family. The doc looks at me, and says : "Sure, sure. Youre exhausted, and he will be happy to be at home." Then, after a silence : "And... you know... it could well be his last Christmas..." This is how I came back to guitar. Each and every evening we were around his bed, his mother telling a story, and me playing. I hadnt touch a string for years. But after a few weeks, a light, breezy and swinging music was flowing from my head through my fingers. Straight dry acoustic guitar. The thing is that I didnt know this music was in me. I had never played like that. Not even *dreamed* to play like that. I don't know the role that this music played in this experience, but, in the circumstances, everything was helping. And it helped me big time to go thru. (in case you wonder, today, the boy is ok. He learned to live with the sequels of the surgeries, but he is alive.) Now, I play the guitar everyday, adding my modest contribution to music, and my hands are learning the mando. I think it could add some new dimension to my guitar playing. OK. It is my first post here. Have a good day, everybody. Jean-Paul Bataille www.fingerstyle-guitar.com/jean-paul_bataille/ |
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#40 | |
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Martin Stillion
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Quote:
Merci for your wonderful story, Jean-Paul. Bienvenue!
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Notorious: My Celtic CD--listen & buy! The Priest and the Publicans: Gospel bluegrass out of the box. Emando.com: More than you wanted to know. Donaldson Rigel Thormahlen Andersen Old Wave Bacorn Yanuziello Fender National Gibson Roberts Franke Fuchs Aceto Three Hungry Pit Bulls |
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#41 |
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Unrepentant Dilettante
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Myrtle Beach, SC
Posts: 515
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Music is the mathematics of the soul.
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#42 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Thibodaux, Louisiana
Posts: 364
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It's interesting that the importance of and appreciation for the arts is so entertwined with the difficulty artists have with providing a basic living through them. Among artists, this conversation is revisited over and again. I conversed over this very topic with a friend just yesterday. I believe that the gist of the conversation was over 'making it' in the music business, which is basically like winning the lottery vs. playing and creating for the sake of the art itself. On some level, all artists create with the intention that the creation is appreciated by others and with the fondest hope that humanity will appreciate the art that is created. I believe that this is in concert, not contrast, with the catharsis that the process of artistic expression provides. The beauty of the expression is rewarded through the communication and reaction provided in the interpersonal relationship between the artist and the audience. Whether the audience appreciates the creation through applause or monetary compensation (like tips or purchases) or on a grander scale like a Grammy award. On some level, that affirmation was exactly what the artist was seeking to gain in the first place. Simply put, alot of musicians would love to make a successful and full time living at playing music. The dream of quitting the day job is a part, and an important one, that keeps the engine of creativity running. The daily grind of the corporate machine vs. the joy of doing what you love. Oh, to merge the two and free oneself of the chains of labor.
During pre industrial times, when a good deal of the great music we appreciate was created, I don't think that music as a profession was an option at all. It's rather difficult to spend the day on the fiddle while the crops wither in the sun. That is not to say that it was not tried, hence the term, 'starving artist'. So I guess the dream is a luxury in itself, bestowed upon us by the times in which we live. A blessing, for those among us who believe along those lines. If there were one man, alone on the earth, he'd most likely express himself through the arts. Drawing in the dirt, or singing the song of his soul. How much sweeter would he find, did he find, that someone else appreciated his expression?
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Singer/Songwriter/Troubadour ![]() http://www.myspace.com/papapat1 http://www.myspace.com/mosspickers http://www.cdbaby.com/patricksylvest |
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#43 |
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Mano-a-Mando
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Jean-Paul, thanks so much for posting, and very very best wishes and bon chance to your son and your family!
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John McGann, Professor, Strings Berklee College of Music New Skype Lessons with John McGann Music Transcription Service Instructional DVDs + Books/CD sets for Mandolin Mandolin + Guitar Performances on YouTube Octave Mandolin with Wayfaring Strangers Merlefest 2005 |
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