New Red Bear Picks

Bob Stolkin · 03-10-2009, 01:35 PM

Lately I've been on kind of pick bender in search of the right one. I've tried every shape and material imaginable, including Dawg, Pro-Plec, Blue Chip, Red Bear, Wegen, you name it!

I've settled on the Red Bear, as I really like its tone and feel. I just got one of Dave's new Tuff-Tone picks, and spent awhile last night with it and the standard Red Bear (also have settled on the C 2 shape). I have to say, I really dug it. Supposedly it's much more durable. It feels a little lighter to me, and the material is really grippy and comfortable. The tone is very close to the standard Red Bear, but to my ear the standard is a bit warmer, while the new stuff is a bit crisper, and possibly a hair louder. And it's half the price ($10).

Not sure which one I'll end up playing more, but it could end up being the new one. Has anyone else tried one yet? Would be interested in your impressions.

Kevin K · 03-10-2009, 01:50 PM

Interesting, haven't heard about those till now.
Worth a purchase to try out.

Ignatius · 03-10-2009, 03:31 PM

Bob--

These look and sound interesting. How thick is the Tuff-Tone? It only comes in heavy at this point, and I would be willing to try it if heavy is not super-thick. Can you measure yours to let us know?

Ignatius

Kevin K · 03-10-2009, 06:29 PM

Bob,
and you liked these better than the BlueChip?

Bob Stolkin · 03-10-2009, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignatius

Bob--

These look and sound interesting. How thick is the Tuff-Tone? It only comes in heavy at this point, and I would be willing to try it if heavy is not super-thick. Can you measure yours to let us know?

Ignatius

It's interesting. The Tuff-Tone that I got is about 1.6 mm thick, and I prefer the standard material in about 1.25 mm. But, it feels thinner than that to me, about like the 1.25 mm standard one, and it definitely feels thinner than the 1.6 mm that I have in the standard. Dave is sure about his measurement, so it must be something about the material that makes it feel thinner in your hand. He noticed the same thing. I would go ahead and try the heavy.

Bob Stolkin · 03-10-2009, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin K

Bob,
and you liked these better than the BlueChip?

Kevin, I like the Blue Chip a lot, but I still kind of prefer the Red Bear, personally. I like both better than anything else I tried, by a long shot. The Blue Chip has great volume, is very grippy, and perhaps a bit faster off the strings, but is a little bright for my taste on the E string. The Red Bear feels a bit more "natural" in my hand, and to me sounds a bit warmer and more natural, though not quite as loud. And the new material takes the warping and breakage factor out of the equation.

Both are superb products, really comes down to personal taste at that point.

Ignatius · 03-10-2009, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Stolkin

It's interesting. The Tuff-Tone that I got is about 1.6 mm thick, and I prefer the standard material in about 1.25 mm. But, it feels thinner than that to me, about like the 1.25 mm standard one, and it definitely feels thinner than the 1.6 mm that I have in the standard. Dave is sure about his measurement, so it must be something about the material that makes it feel thinner in your hand. He noticed the same thing. I would go ahead and try the heavy.

Wow, I wish I could, but even 1.25 mm is way too thick for me.

I use a Gibson 351 style heavy, which is probably no more than .73 or .88 mm. I'll have to wait for the thinner versions: 1.6 or 1.25 mm doesn't really matter to me--it's just too much. I know I'm unusual for a mando player, but my guitar training that led me to a relatively lighter pick overall. The other ones just feel too big for me to handle.

Fretbear · 03-10-2009, 09:49 PM

http://redbeartrading.com/tufftonepicks.html

PhilTod · 03-14-2009, 10:03 AM

How about the bevels on these Tuff-Tone picks-same system as the regular Red Bear picks?

Philphool · 03-14-2009, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilTod

How about the bevels on these Tuff-Tone picks-same system as the regular Red Bear picks?

From the site:

"...They are currently available in ivory color and heavy gauge with other colors and gauges to come soon. They can be had in all our shapes, with any of our bevel options, and of course, with or without grips...."

Youda · 03-14-2009, 05:09 PM

Feel, grip, tone....

...but, what I'm looking for is a pick that doesn't have that rasp or click on the strings. I want to hear the pure note, not the sound of the pick on the string, even a little bit. Maybe it's just me and a stroke that's too sloppy? Does the Blue Chip or Red Bear eliminate or reduce pick noise?

Jim Broyles · 03-14-2009, 05:30 PM

People have tried to tell me that the Blue Chip produces less pick noise. I disagree. No less pick noise than the Dunlop Ultex 1.14s I always use. I will try these new Red Bears and report, but I don't think you will find any pick which produces no noise, not even a little bit, on a mandolin. Celluloid may be the quietest of all.

Youda · 03-14-2009, 07:29 PM

I use a Dunlop, too. I saw on one of the endorsements for the Blue Chip that someone thought they eliminated the rasp. But, before I drop that much money for a better mouse trap, I'd like to know that's it's really a better mouse trap. Otherwise, I'll stick to the Dunlop so when it mysteriously disappears, as they all seem to do, then I won't have to find a credit card to buy a new one.

AW Meyer · 03-27-2009, 04:36 PM

My tufftones arrived in the mail today. Reading this thread made me curious enough to order a couple. To me, they sound almost identical to the Wegen Bluegrass picks I use. However, I don't find the Red Bears to be particularly "grippy." They feel kind of slippery compared to the Wegens.

Bob Stolkin · 03-27-2009, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AW Meyer

My tufftones arrived in the mail today. Reading this thread made me curious enough to order a couple. To me, they sound almost identical to the Wegen Bluegrass picks I use. However, I don't find the Red Bears to be particularly "grippy." They feel kind of slippery compared to the Wegens.

Interesting. I find the Tufftones to be noticeably warmer sounding than the Wegens (on my mando, same shape, particularly on the unwound strings). Also, wonder if sometimes grippy-ness depends on the individual's chemistry.

oldtimestrings · 03-28-2009, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Youda

what I'm looking for is a pick that doesn't have that rasp or click on the strings. I want to hear the pure note, not the sound of the pick on the string, even a little bit. Maybe it's just me and a stroke that's too sloppy? Does the Blue Chip or Red Bear eliminate or reduce pick noise?

I absolutely love Blue Chip picks. Just ordered my second one, in fact. But I agree with the poster who said that Blue Chips don't really eliminate that pick click. They're bright and crisp, so they do have a fair amount of click if you're not careful with them. They're also fast and slick, so the clickiness can be controlled with good technique.

But if reducing pick noise is the top priority, I'd suggest trying a Wegen. Before the Blue Chips came out, Wegen TF120 was my go-to pick on both mando and guitar. I still like them a lot, and still use them. Not quite as bright as Blue Chip, and maybe just a tad less volume, but in my experience they are the least clicky of the picks I like.

These new Red Bears are intriguing. I tried the originals a few years ago, but actually experienced some play wear on the tip, resulting in a scratchy and somewhat harsh tone after a while. Maybe I'll have to try the Tuff-Tones. After buying a couple of Blue Chips, $10 for a Tuff-Tone seems downright cheap!

Philphool · 03-28-2009, 12:35 PM

Got my Tufftone pick a few days ago.

My assessment:
Tone about the same as Blue Chip & Wegens, maybe not quite as bright as BC.

Surface feel is not as "tacky" as BC. But still doesn't slide around too much. Mine does not have the "grip holes".

Good coming off the strings, not quite as smooth off the strings as BC but almost as quiet.

That's my impression after 2 days.

AW Meyer · 03-28-2009, 03:23 PM

After more playing, I have to amend what I said earlier about the Tufftone sounding almost identical to the Wegen. The Tufftone has a bit warmer sound to it. It doesn't really slip in my hand: it just feels like it might. I guess it's because I'm used to the Wegens.

dj coffey · 03-29-2009, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Youda

Feel, grip, tone....

...but, what I'm looking for is a pick that doesn't have that rasp or click on the strings. I want to hear the pure note, not the sound of the pick on the string, even a little bit. Maybe it's just me and a stroke that's too sloppy? Does the Blue Chip or Red Bear eliminate or reduce pick noise?

The classical mandolinists in Germany use Wolle picks. I was curious after being in Caterina Licthenberg's workshops at the Mandolin Symposium last year and when I purchased her book, I also picked up some of the picks. Had to purchase via Trekel.de

I tried both the white and the blue variety - the white one's give me a much better tone and zero pick click. The blue seem to give a quieter tone. They are made of a flexible polymer, quite thick, have grip holes. You have to put your own bevel on them using an emery board.

Not sure where Caterina gets the feathers for picking her baroque mandolin. I believe there's an actual bird involved.

Shoot, the links don't work. You'll have to look for them by clicking the accessories link, then clicking the Zubehor for Mandolin/mandola and scroll to the bottom of the pages.

Jim Broyles · 04-03-2009, 11:22 PM

I got the Tuff Tone in C HVY for mandolin and Lil' Jazzer to use on my Ibanez Artcore Jazz box. The feel is okay but a little slippery compared to the regular Tortis Red Bears and compared to my go-to Dunlop Ultexes. The tone is good but the string noise is UNBEARABLE. I can't stand how the pick sounds on the strings even though it produces a very nice mandolin tone on my Fullerton with GHS Silk and Bronze strings. It is a little more tolerable on electric guitar, but I can still hear LOUD pick noise at low volumes. I have not gigged or jammed with the picks yet. My recommendation is - save your money and use Jim Dunlop Ultex 1.14 picks.

Ken Sager · 04-07-2009, 12:16 PM

Blue Chip picks produce less rasp, as mentioned earlier, than Tortis (Red Bear) or the Dunlop Ultex. I used Ultex 1.14's on my guitar until I a/b'd a BC. Very similar tone but the BC is cleaner sounding off the strings. All picks "click", but BC "rasps" far less. Plus, the BC are much stickier than Ultex or Tortis.

Plus, they're cleaner, louder, and clearer on mandolin.

Jim Broyles · 04-07-2009, 06:52 PM

Well, I had the opposite experience. I a/b'ed the Ultex and the BC a lot, and the BC was quite satisfactory, producing a very nice mandolin tone, but it was louder on the strings and quieter in the air, if you get my meaning. The playing volume was lower on the BC, and it had more pick noise. My recommendation is save your money. Again - a very nice pick and a very nice sound, but no better and in some ways not as good as a $2.50 a 6-pack pick.

Stephen Lind · 04-09-2009, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Broyles

I The tone is good but the string noise is UNBEARABLE. I can't stand how the pick sounds on the strings even though it produces a very nice mandolin tone

exactly the way they sound to me

Nate · 04-09-2009, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Broyles

My recommendation is - save your money and use Jim Dunlop Ultex 1.14 picks.

Works for me. I've been demoing my Ultex 1.14s against less expensive picks (Dawg, 2nd hand Wegen, etc), and none come close. Glad to hear that they hold up against the high-end picks, too. Makes me think twice about experimenting any more, and just contenting myself with picks that I already love and can get cheaply.

Michael Gowell · 06-02-2009, 03:23 PM

YMMV.

I started experimenting with mandolin picks with the 'David Grisman' model from MWN circa 25 years ago. Lotta picks ago. I really like my new Tuff-Tones...Heavy gauge, Mondo shape, Grip Holes. Great feel, great tone, & I don't experience string noise, given my instruments (I use 'em on 3 different mandos), their individual string sets, or the different techniques I use on different mandos.

Best 10-dollar picks I've encountered. I prefer them to my $20 tortoise-colored Red Bear - the Tuffies, being a solid off-white color, are harder to lose.

03-10-2009, 01:35 PM	#1
Bob Stolkin Registered User Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 223	New Red Bear Picks Lately I've been on kind of pick bender in search of the right one. I've tried every shape and material imaginable, including Dawg, Pro-Plec, Blue Chip, Red Bear, Wegen, you name it! I've settled on the Red Bear, as I really like its tone and feel. I just got one of Dave's new Tuff-Tone picks, and spent awhile last night with it and the standard Red Bear (also have settled on the C 2 shape). I have to say, I really dug it. Supposedly it's much more durable. It feels a little lighter to me, and the material is really grippy and comfortable. The tone is very close to the standard Red Bear, but to my ear the standard is a bit warmer, while the new stuff is a bit crisper, and possibly a hair louder. And it's half the price ($10). Not sure which one I'll end up playing more, but it could end up being the new one. Has anyone else tried one yet? Would be interested in your impressions.

03-10-2009, 01:50 PM	#2
Kevin K Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: West Tennessee Posts: 927	Re: New Red Bear Picks Interesting, haven't heard about those till now. Worth a purchase to try out. __________________ "Can I have a little more talent in the monitors please?"

03-10-2009, 03:31 PM	#3
Ignatius Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Just outside Chicago Posts: 59	Re: New Red Bear Picks Bob-- These look and sound interesting. How thick is the Tuff-Tone? It only comes in heavy at this point, and I would be willing to try it if heavy is not super-thick. Can you measure yours to let us know? Ignatius

03-10-2009, 06:29 PM	#4
Kevin K Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: West Tennessee Posts: 927	Re: New Red Bear Picks Bob, and you liked these better than the BlueChip? __________________ "Can I have a little more talent in the monitors please?"

03-10-2009, 09:49 PM	#8
Fretbear Ursus Mandolinus Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 1,649	Re: New Red Bear Picks http://redbeartrading.com/tufftonepicks.html __________________ http://scottlearmonth.tripod.com

03-14-2009, 10:03 AM	#9
PhilTod Registered User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 79	Re: New Red Bear Picks How about the bevels on these Tuff-Tone picks-same system as the regular Red Bear picks?

03-14-2009, 05:09 PM	#11
Youda Carol Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 138	Re: New Red Bear Picks Feel, grip, tone.... ...but, what I'm looking for is a pick that doesn't have that rasp or click on the strings. I want to hear the pure note, not the sound of the pick on the string, even a little bit. Maybe it's just me and a stroke that's too sloppy? Does the Blue Chip or Red Bear eliminate or reduce pick noise?

03-14-2009, 05:30 PM	#12
Jim Broyles jbmando RIP HK Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Plymouth Meeting, PA Posts: 3,507	Re: New Red Bear Picks People have tried to tell me that the Blue Chip produces less pick noise. I disagree. No less pick noise than the Dunlop Ultex 1.14s I always use. I will try these new Red Bears and report, but I don't think you will find any pick which produces no noise, not even a little bit, on a mandolin. Celluloid may be the quietest of all. __________________ "I thought I knew a lot about music. Then you start digging and the deeper you go, the more there is."~John Mellencamp "Theory only seems like rocket science when you don't know it. Once you understand it, it's more like plumbing!"~John McGann "IT'S T-R-E-M-O-L-O, dangit!!"~Me

03-14-2009, 07:29 PM	#13
Youda Carol Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 138	Re: New Red Bear Picks I use a Dunlop, too. I saw on one of the endorsements for the Blue Chip that someone thought they eliminated the rasp. But, before I drop that much money for a better mouse trap, I'd like to know that's it's really a better mouse trap. Otherwise, I'll stick to the Dunlop so when it mysteriously disappears, as they all seem to do, then I won't have to find a credit card to buy a new one.

03-27-2009, 04:36 PM	#14
AW Meyer Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: burnaby, bc, canada Posts: 286	Re: New Red Bear Picks My tufftones arrived in the mail today. Reading this thread made me curious enough to order a couple. To me, they sound almost identical to the Wegen Bluegrass picks I use. However, I don't find the Red Bears to be particularly "grippy." They feel kind of slippery compared to the Wegens. __________________ awm

03-28-2009, 12:35 PM	#17
Philphool Phil Goodson Join Date: May 2006 Location: Statesville, NC Posts: 860	Re: New Red Bear Picks Got my Tufftone pick a few days ago. My assessment: Tone about the same as Blue Chip & Wegens, maybe not quite as bright as BC. Surface feel is not as "tacky" as BC. But still doesn't slide around too much. Mine does not have the "grip holes". Good coming off the strings, not quite as smooth off the strings as BC but almost as quiet. That's my impression after 2 days. __________________ Phil

03-28-2009, 03:23 PM	#18
AW Meyer Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: burnaby, bc, canada Posts: 286	Re: New Red Bear Picks After more playing, I have to amend what I said earlier about the Tufftone sounding almost identical to the Wegen. The Tufftone has a bit warmer sound to it. It doesn't really slip in my hand: it just feels like it might. I guess it's because I'm used to the Wegens. __________________ awm

04-03-2009, 11:22 PM	#20
Jim Broyles jbmando RIP HK Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Plymouth Meeting, PA Posts: 3,507	Re: New Red Bear Picks I got the Tuff Tone in C HVY for mandolin and Lil' Jazzer to use on my Ibanez Artcore Jazz box. The feel is okay but a little slippery compared to the regular Tortis Red Bears and compared to my go-to Dunlop Ultexes. The tone is good but the string noise is UNBEARABLE. I can't stand how the pick sounds on the strings even though it produces a very nice mandolin tone on my Fullerton with GHS Silk and Bronze strings. It is a little more tolerable on electric guitar, but I can still hear LOUD pick noise at low volumes. I have not gigged or jammed with the picks yet. My recommendation is - save your money and use Jim Dunlop Ultex 1.14 picks. __________________ "I thought I knew a lot about music. Then you start digging and the deeper you go, the more there is."~John Mellencamp "Theory only seems like rocket science when you don't know it. Once you understand it, it's more like plumbing!"~John McGann "IT'S T-R-E-M-O-L-O, dangit!!"~Me

04-07-2009, 12:16 PM	#21
Ken Sager 8 Fingers, 2 Thumbs Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 1,792	Re: New Red Bear Picks Blue Chip picks produce less rasp, as mentioned earlier, than Tortis (Red Bear) or the Dunlop Ultex. I used Ultex 1.14's on my guitar until I a/b'd a BC. Very similar tone but the BC is cleaner sounding off the strings. All picks "click", but BC "rasps" far less. Plus, the BC are much stickier than Ultex or Tortis. Plus, they're cleaner, louder, and clearer on mandolin. __________________ Less talk, more pick.

04-07-2009, 06:52 PM	#22
Jim Broyles jbmando RIP HK Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Plymouth Meeting, PA Posts: 3,507	Re: New Red Bear Picks Well, I had the opposite experience. I a/b'ed the Ultex and the BC a lot, and the BC was quite satisfactory, producing a very nice mandolin tone, but it was louder on the strings and quieter in the air, if you get my meaning. The playing volume was lower on the BC, and it had more pick noise. My recommendation is save your money. Again - a very nice pick and a very nice sound, but no better and in some ways not as good as a $2.50 a 6-pack pick. __________________ "I thought I knew a lot about music. Then you start digging and the deeper you go, the more there is."~John Mellencamp "Theory only seems like rocket science when you don't know it. Once you understand it, it's more like plumbing!"~John McGann "IT'S T-R-E-M-O-L-O, dangit!!"~Me

06-02-2009, 03:23 PM	#25
Michael Gowell Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: kittery point, maine Posts: 731	Re: New Red Bear Picks YMMV. I started experimenting with mandolin picks with the 'David Grisman' model from MWN circa 25 years ago. Lotta picks ago. I really like my new Tuff-Tones...Heavy gauge, Mondo shape, Grip Holes. Great feel, great tone, & I don't experience string noise, given my instruments (I use 'em on 3 different mandos), their individual string sets, or the different techniques I use on different mandos. Best 10-dollar picks I've encountered. I prefer them to my $20 tortoise-colored Red Bear - the Tuffies, being a solid off-white color, are harder to lose.