business name

[PT66]

I am 61 years old. I have been building asa a hobby for 45 years. I plan to start building more as I transition to retirement from my current job. I donn't what to infringe on Bob Schneider or Paul Schneider or Dave Schneider Guitars. But I do want to use my own name on my instruments. Does anyone know how that works legally? I hope to building Octave Mandolins, Mandocellos and emandos.

[EdSherry]

Generally, people are free to use their own name to identify their own products. Unfortunately, you're in a murky legal area, given that your name is the same as the name of others who are in a similar line of business.

Speaking very generally, the traditional legal test is whether consumers would be confused as to the identity of the supplier. Even if my name really were (say) Paul McCartney, if I recorded and released music under my own name, the courts might well find too much of a risk of confusion and might prevent me from doing so. Then again, they might not, reasoning that I was just as free as Sir Paul is to use my own name. As I said, it's a murky area.

I'd suggest that you contact the luthiers you have identified and see what they say. If they don't object, by all means go for it. Or if they ask for what you think are reasonable conditions (e.g., you identify yourself as "Schneider Mandolins" rather than "Schneider Guitars"), then likewise you won't have a problem.

If they DO object, or if they ask for what you see as unreasonable restraints, you'll then have to figure out how you want to proceed.

Have you considered a combination name? E.g., "Illinois Mandolin Works by David X. [or whatever your middle initial is] Schneider"? Or "DXS Mandolins"?

You indicate that you have been building for 45 years. Have you done so under your own name? Have you sold instruments to others? Can you document that? If so, you're in a much stronger situation legally than if you wanted to start using your name AFTER others have already started using similar names.

[MikeEdgerton]

The David.

[Michael Lewis]

At one time I made a long list of possible names for instrument models, and they could be used for businesses, cars, or any other thing you might imagine. You need to determine what you want to project, sort of the personality of your business (daring, righteous, humorous, whimsical, majestic, nostalgic, etc.). Or you could fall back on some of the tried and true appellations like Acme, Apex, AAAAA Mandolins, or how about Stradivarius? That one has been used so much by so many folks I doubt anyone could object. Animal? Bull, Fox, Walrus, Wood Pecker, Python, 'Gator, ad infinitum.

[mrmando]

Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton

The David.

I like it! Then this could be the headstock inlay:

To answer Ed's question, yes, David Schneider has definitely sold mandolins under his own name. They don't look anything like Bob Schneider's or Paul Schneider's mandolins.

[thistle3585]

Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton

The David.

There was a fellow that built mandolins using that name. I think he only built a few, but he passed away several years ago. I had placed an order with him for an A style, but he had become ill soon after and wasn't able to complete it.

I can't believe Mike didn't remember this thread. I found it because I remembered the story about the Gallo brother not being able to use his own name for his new winery.

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...ighlight=gallo

[dandhr61]

middle names, first letters of names use like "D Schneider" for example.

[DryBones]

Originally Posted by dandhr61

middle names, first letters of names use like "D Schneider" for example.

thats just "Twisted, Sister!"

[mandozilla]

Dave you could design an eye catching logo that incorpoates your name or your initials...you know, like a winged DS or whatever...the "The (fill in the blank) " name thingy is cool but I think logos are pretty neat and would give your instruments more of a branded look.

[Steevarino]

Dave,

I think what you probably ought to do is get with the other two "Schneiders" that you are most concerned about, and take it from there. Maybe go to these meetings loaded with a few options. I like "The David" mentioned above, but the inlay would be a real bear... "D. Schneider" might fly, but the other David might not think so. Tough one... How about registering your business as "Schneider Instruments", "Schneider String Works", or be more like me, and call it "Schneider Acoustic" (and half of the population will add an "S" and call it "Schneider AcousticS").

I can't imagine any other Schneiders in the world would have a problem with a name along those lines. But, then, you never know...

I had a similar, but somewhat different problem a couple of years ago. I decided to start building resophonic guitars, initially, and figured "Cumberland Acoustic" was a dumb name to put on an instrument. My wife and I poured over several name options for this business/instrument, and finally came up with "Red Line Resophonics". Nothing really to do with D0br0 type guitars, but it was sort of a "racey" name, linked to hot rodding, and reso. guitars do have a lot of chrome on them! I guess my point is, we tried every way we could to incorporate my name, but I have a very common name (all three names, actually) and it either came out very boring, or in conflict with another builder.

Good luck with it, and be sure to let us know what you come up with.

[mandozilla]

Hey Steve
How about "The Hubcap"...

Or "The Tanpon" (That ain't no part of nothin')

And you could call your different models "The John", "The Ed", and "The Rudy" (as in Dopyera Bros.)

[dandhr61]

Steve Smith is the guy who played Uncle Red on the red green show in Canada on the CBC! he used duct tape to fix or build everything and had even had scotch endorshment. no wonder you are not into using your name, lol It was a very good and funny show though.

[bryce]

I used my middle name. Houchens didn't sound like an instrument name to me and Bryce is much less pearl to cut. I liked the one syllable thing as well.

[allenhopkins]

When Walter Taylor sold Taylor Wines (to Coca-Cola, I think) and then started his own winery, he wasn't allowed to put his name on his products since he'd sold the Taylor trademark. He put "Walter Who?" or some such on the labels. (Irrelevant trivia.)

How about "Schneidertone"?

[Steevarino]

The story that comes to my mind is that of Ransom E. Olds. After he lost control of his Oldsmobile automobile company, he could no longer use his name in that industry. As I learned it, he took to making trucks, under the name of REO, using his initials. Pretty cool trucks, too. Mostly bigger ones, but you can find a pick-up every now and then. You can get an eye-full by Image-Googling "REO Trucks".

[JEStanek]

Steve, I saw my first REO vehicle when I was in the suburbs of Sydney in 2007 at an assembly point for a vintage car rodeo (they were going for a drive). I asked the old guy working on it where it was made and he said, "America, mate." I had to travel 1/2way around the world to see a different American car for the first time!

For the OP, what about The Illini?

Jamie

[PT66]

Also two names of bands. REO Speed wagon and Diamond REO.

[Steevarino]

By golly, you are right! See how it all seems to come around?!?!?

Hmmm,

Diamond Scheider. Schneider Speedwagon.

I think we've got a ways to go here...

[man dough nollij]

Schneid-O-Lin?

Schnibson?

Schneidivarius?

[mandozilla]

Schneider Speedwagon

Man that would use a lot of pearl or abalone...it would crowd up the headstock too.

[Santiago]

D Schneider sounds like you're in the band Twisted Sister(Dee spells it Snyder), but it might be your best bet. You can simply call it the Dave Schneider mandolin, and use an iconic symbol on the head stock instead of your name. People will affectionately call it by the symbol.

[JEStanek]

Jamie

[Steevarino]

That's funny!

Or, go backwards with it, and call it "Prince".

Or, maybe, "The Prince", to keep it more mandolin-ish.

Or, back to something along the lines of Mark's suggestions, how about "Schnied-O-Tone" or "SchneiderTone"?

Uh-oh, maybe that last one's a bit too b@nj0-ish...

[PT66]

A friend of mine suggested "Old Davey" in script on two lines like "The Gibson".

[JEStanek]

That's great.

Jamie