replacing fret wire, how long does it take?

[yoshka]

I have frets that need to be replaced. I wanted to asK:

Are all the frets replaced or just the worn down ones?
How long does the job take? (All of them or just the ones needing it)
What's the approximate cost of the job?

Thanks for your answers.
Yossi

[Hans]

Yossi, that depends on the straightness of your neck. If the neck is straight, and it's just a matter of divots in the frets and just the first few need to be replaced, it won't run too much, maybe less than $100.
If the neck is not straight, it probably means taking out all the frets, straightening the fingerboard and replacing all the frets. That could mean a new nut too. Depends a lot on the repairperson, but could run up to $400.
Timewise, it's mostly a repairperson backlog thing, but in straight time, a good complete fret job takes 5-6 hours.

[yoshka]

Hans,
Thanks for the reply, you've answered my questions. Would you be so kind as to explain the difference in procedure depending on whether the neck is straight or not?

"If the neck is straight, and it's just a matter of divots in the frets"
Are the divots (not listed in the Mandocafe's glossary) the spaces between the fingerboard where the fret wire goes into? How does the straightness of the neck come into play in this regard?

Does this have anything to do with the "tang" (The C on the attached image, which I saw this here http://www.lutherie.net/fret.chart.html
Thanks for info.
Yossi

[lenf12]

Hans,
Thanks for the reply, you've answered my questions. Would you be so kind as to explain the difference in procedure depending on whether the neck is straight or not?

"If the neck is straight, and it's just a matter of divots in the frets"
Are the divots (not listed in the Mandocafe's glossary) the spaces between the fingerboard where the fret wire goes into? How does the straightness of the neck come into play in this regard?

Does this have anything to do with the "tang" (The C on the attached image, which I saw this here http://www.lutherie.net/fret.chart.html
Thanks for info.
Yossi

Hi Yossi,

I do not to mean to pre-empt Hans by jumping in here. If the neck is straight, there's no need to pull all of the frets (unless they are all worn) to level the fingerboard. In this case, if just a few frets are so worn that they can't be dressed to remove the divots, they would be replaced. Then the old and new frets would be leveled and crowned. The divots are the wear marks in the frets left by the string contacting them (usually from squeezing the strings to tightly when playing).

If the neck is not straight, one strategy is to pull all of the frets, level the fingerboard, re-cut the fret slots if necessary, install new frets and then level and crown the frets. It's much more labor intensive, hence the big increase in cost. Another strategy for a neck with a forward bow would be to install new frets with larger tangs (C which you reference in your diagram) which should force the neck to straighten.

I hope that explains it somewhat and invite the real luthiers to correct me or add their comments.

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[buddyellis]

'Divots' in the frets are the places where (especially the non-wound) strings make contact with the fret and wear a 'slot' into it. Basically you level out the frets to get rid of those, which you can typically do a few times before you have to replace frets.

[yoshka]

Thanks for the replies. I understand what "divots" are now. Perhaps a few more questions?

"Then the old and new frets would be leveled and crowned."
I assume "leveled" means making sure all the frets (new and old) are even. What does "crowned" mean?

"If the neck is not straight, one strategy is to pull all of the frets, level the fingerboard"
"level" how do you do that?

Last question: how does installing fret wire with a larger tang force the neck to straighten?
I really appreciate the replies. Thanks.
Yossi

[Michael Cameron]

Hey Yoshka,I'm not a luthier either. I'll tell ya what I think anyways.

To "level" the frets really means to make sure each successive fret(going towards the body/up the fretboard) is a little lower(or at least not higher) than the fret before it.

After you've "leveled" the frets,they may not be nice&rounded on the tops;so,crowning them gives you that. Makes for more precise intonation.

Installing frets with a larger tang may help to straighten the neck by causing compression in the(smaller) slots. That will take out some relief.

Some luthiers won't do partial refrets;and/or,won't do a refret without "planing" the board.

As always,"I could be wrong about all this." (Dali Lama)

PS:Nice "scrolls"! in your avatar.

[yoshka]

Thank you Michael, little by little the fog is clearing for me.

[lenf12]

Hey Yoshka,I'm not a luthier either. I'll tell ya what I think anyways.

To "level" the frets really means to make sure each successive fret is not higher than the fret before it.

After you've "leveled" the frets,they may not be nice&rounded on the tops;so,crowning them gives you that. Makes for more precise intonation.

Installing frets with a larger tang may help to straighten the neck by causing compression in the(smaller) slots. That will take out some relief.

Some luthiers won't do partial refrets;and/or,won't do a refret without "planing" the board.

As always,"I could be wrong about all this." (Dali Lama)

PS:Nice "scrolls"! in your avatar.

Hi again Yossi,

As Michael says above "not higher" is more accurate than saying "a little lower". In fact, they are all the same height. The bridge adjustment is then used to make sure that the strings don't buzz against the frets. When the frets are leveled they will have flat tops from the process. They will look square from the sides compared to the diagram you provided in an earlier post. You want them to have a nice rounded top like your picture. This is done with fret crowning files that have concave grinding surfaces. The ones from Stew-Mac have 2 grinding surfaces; one is quite course at ~ 80 or 100 grit, the other is much finer at ~ 300 grit. After the frets are properly crowned (rounded on top), they are usually polished with 0000 steel wool to give a nice bright surface.

Hope this helps some and thanks Michael for letting me paraphrase!!

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[Hans]

Yes, Len has it right. The straighter the neck is the simpler the job. A fret dressing might do it if you have plenty of fret left, and the neck is straight. That involves grinding all the frets level with each other. That will leave some, most, or all with a flat spot on the crown of the fret, and each fret must be re-rounded or crowned. When the frets are all too low to straighten everything, you have to start replacing frets, and at that point usually all of them. It is then that it's wise to flatten out the fingerboard again and do all that other stuff mentioned like re-slot for the depth of the tang and sometimes replace sanded through inlay.

[yoshka]

Well, I understand now that "replacing fret wire" is not as it sounds. (Take out old, replace with new) Quite a number of different tasks involved so that an instrument becomes playable again.
Thanks.
Yossi

[lenf12]

Well, I understand now that "replacing fret wire" is not as it sounds. (Take out old, replace with new) Quite a number of different tasks involved so that an instrument becomes playable again.
Thanks.
Yossi

Yes Yossi,

A mandolin is high precision instrument with many variables having to be working in concert in order play well; easily and in tune. Some problems can be fixed with a new set of strings. Others can be fixed with a bridge or nut replacement/rework. Eventually, all mandolins will need to be re-fretted and now you know some of the details involved in that job.

Thanks to all posters for your contributions to this topic.

Len B.
Clearwater, FL