Gibson f-5 L

frankenstein · 03-06-2009, 04:27 PM

Just one question. Should used Gibson F-5L's ( made in the 80's... 90's... and this decade )assuming they are all in great condition, be the same price ??

Bernie Daniel · 03-06-2009, 07:23 PM

My personal opinion is that the ones made from about 2000 on are generally the best and it seems to me that right around 2002 or so they finally really put everything togather and start making really great mandolins again.

That said I think any of the mandolins after the Flatiron take over are certainly respectable.

The Flatirons and the Gibsons immediately after the purchase of Flatiron in 1987 had the bolt on neck and I'm not sure about the exact year the switch over to the compound dovetail started -- I think was when mandolin production move back to Tennessee. But that element seems to be important to some. But I once had a chance to picke on of the Bill Monroe special issue F-5's a camp and it is hard to see how a mandolin could be much better than that one and it had the bolt-on neck.

A lot of people will pay for the Carlson signature others want the Derrington or Roberts or Daley or whatever. So I think the personal preferences outweights a lot of things -- I have seen great examples of all those periods.

f5loar · 03-08-2009, 12:30 AM

Yes.

Timbofood · 03-09-2009, 07:43 AM

Isn't that rather like asking if all Oldsmobile Cutlasses from time frame "A" to "B" be worth the same? I would venture that to be a very difficult question to answer. It does not take into consideration anything about condition not to mention sound/playability. I would respectfully disagree with you F5Loar, and, if we are using one word answers be forced to say "no" or maybe more accurately "Why?"
Sorry, just re read OP even if they are in "like" condition, I think the argument still stands.
Interesting concept though

MikeEdgerton · 03-09-2009, 07:47 AM

I'm assuming that Tom is basing his yes on what they have been selling for and not on a personal opinion. Wishing it were so doesn't determine the price, the price is determined by what people are paying for them.

chip · 03-09-2009, 08:08 AM

I don't see the Loars coming down on price even though people aren't buying them. They seem to all stay in the $165,000+ price. Unless someone is having extreme financial difficulties I don't see prices fluctuating much on used instruments. Values remain stable.

Bernie Daniel · 03-09-2009, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Mike Edgerton: the price is determined by what people are paying for them.

Exactomundo. You can find all of the years mentioned selling for around $4K --some beyond that, some below.

And like I said before these are all fine mandolins -- I just happen to think the ones made in Nashville after 2000 are generally the best mandolins but the does not directly translate in to the going price for them.

It seems to me the reason is presonal preferences -- a hard thing to quantify precisely with currency.

frankenstein · 03-09-2009, 06:11 PM

If the price is determined by what people are paying for them then what is that price ?? I can see differences in these models from each decade but can't quite understand how those differences equate to being the same dollar value in the end.. The same model Gibson guitar does not hold the same value through the decades.. What gives?? and don't say YES..

MikeEdgerton · 03-09-2009, 06:31 PM

What gives is simple. You asked if they should be (we assumed you meant) selling for the same price, the answer is yes. The why is because people are buying them at that price. For justification you need to talk to the people that are buying them, they obviously see the value. This really isn't anything anyone would have a cut and dried answer for. I learned a long time ago that mandolins do things in the market that guitars don't do. I don't have an answer for that either.

Chuck Naill · 03-09-2009, 07:08 PM

Quote:

I learned a long time ago that mandolins do things in the market that guitars don't do. I don't have an answer for that either.

How so, Mike?

chuck

Eddie Sheehy · 03-09-2009, 07:12 PM

I agree. All the F5-L's in the Classifieds should sell for the same price - I propose $5,000. All those in favour?
And next I'd like to recommend a price for ALL Loars....

Bernie Daniel · 03-09-2009, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Frankenstein: If the price is determined by what people are paying for them then what is that price ?? I can see differences in these models from each decade but can't quite understand how those differences equate to being the same dollar value in the end.. The same model Gibson guitar does not hold the same value through the decades.. What gives?? and don't say YES..

That is your second question. You said in the OT just one question

You asked "should" all F-5L's sell for the same price?

Most who answered told you "yes" -- some gave you a price, some gave more details -- I said around $4000

I'll revise that to $4000 +/- but prices generally do not seem to depend on the year. So your question was answered right?

Now you are asking a different question -- why is do they sell for the same price?

I doubt there is a clear answer to that -- not to be too cute but the answer is because -- that is because people have different opinions. Like for example that was my opinion.

mandolirius · 03-09-2009, 08:35 PM

I'm not sure I understand the point of this thread. All of "anything" doesn't sell at the same price. Unless you're looking at buying one, this seems like a pointless question with no real answer.

I wonder why there are so many threads like this and so few that actually discuss mandolin music. I hadn't really thought about it until I read Bill Graham's interview with David Grisman in which he made a similar comment. People will go on and on about the "mandolin market" but seem to have little interest in mandolin players or mandolin music. A thread about so-and-so's new recording will get only a few posts but one about the economics of buying and selling mandolins will go on for weeks. Like Grisman, I find it strange.

MikeEdgerton · 03-09-2009, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck Naill

How so, Mike?

Take a look at the price of a 1935 Martin guitar, say a D-18. Take a look at the price of a 1935 Martin mandolin, say a Style A. Now, the fact that this pre-war Martin guitar is in the upper reaches of the Guitar market means a Martin mandolin of the same vintage made out fo the same wood should occupy the same space in the mandolin market, right? Wrong. The guitar market and the mandolin market are just different. Same builders, same wood, one reaches for the sky, the other is a best buy. You can't equate what the guitar market does to the mandolin market, they are different animals. The OP in his second poast says "The same model Gibson guitar does not hold the same value through the decades..", then he goes on to tell us what not to say, that's humorous in its own right, but the answer is you can't draw a conclusion from the guitar market when it comes to mandolins. The mandolin market is just different.

MikeEdgerton · 03-09-2009, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mandolirius

I'm not sure I understand the point of this thread. All of "anything" doesn't sell at the same price. Unless you're looking at buying one, this seems like a pointless question with no real answer.

I wonder why there are so many threads like this and so few that actually discuss mandolin music. I hadn't really thought about it until I read Bill Graham's interview with David Grisman in which he made a similar comment. People will go on and on about the "mandolin market" but seem to have little interest in mandolin players or mandolin music. A thread about so-and-so's new recording will get only a few posts but one about the economics of buying and selling mandolins will go on for weeks. Like Grisman, I find it strange.

Don't find it strange. It's really easy to start a thread. If you want to discuss something just start the thread. I respect David Grisman but I really don't think I need to live my life doing what he thinks is right. Do you? If you want to discuss mandolin music there are a more than a few places you can post those threads. No reason to be disrespectful of the other members that are posting here.

frankenstein · 03-09-2009, 08:47 PM

Sorry 'bout the sub questions.. i suppose "because" is a reasonable answer. A bit vague though..YES. My reasoning is unless an instrument is over say 30 years old then the value starts to increase, up until then the value languishes somewhat..I am not in the market for an F-5L at the moment but find this notion of same value intriguing..To me a say 1988 model should go for $3800 tops, but if they are willing to pay more, take it.... just because..

Eddie Sheehy · 03-09-2009, 09:02 PM

"To me a say 1988 model should go for $3800 tops, but if they are willing to pay more, take it.... just because.. "
That's hilarious since you are not even willing to buy one for less than that...
Talk sho' is cheap...

frankenstein · 03-09-2009, 09:03 PM

By the way the point of any thread is to discuss and hopefully someone may draw conclusions or gain knowledge about aspects of instrument ownership. whatever that means.. We each have a different perspective,I don't get offended by opposing points of view.. So to some my question/s may seem pointless and or humorus but some may find these notions valid..

frankenstein · 03-09-2009, 09:14 PM

That's hilarious since you are not even willing to buy one for less than that...
Talk sho' is cheap...[/QUOTE]

you think? Think again..

Bernie Daniel · 03-09-2009, 09:32 PM

I think you could find one for $3800 if you closely watch the market -- like eBay and the like. Every now and then someone has to move one -- or one will come of for sale that has cosmetic damage.

I bought a dynamite 2002 F-5 Fern for a very good price because it had a few small chips (microphone?), some finish worn off the back of the neck and the frets were ready for some attention.

I fixed the cosmetic things with dyes, nitro, and micromesh myself -- and had the frets and a setup done by a pro -- and now you'd almost never know it wasn't a mint mando -- you'd have to look real close.

I think I got a great deal and now I have a great sounding, great playing, and great looking mandolin (IMO).

You could do the same thing.

f5loar · 03-09-2009, 09:59 PM

You are not suppose to discuss mandolin music here. There are other places on the cafe to do that in and then there is comando. Here is discussed Looking For Information About Mandolins stuff and questions like this would fall under that category.
When I said just "yes" it was in response to the "should".
Yes they should but don't mean they do as others have pointed out. Generally any F5 should retain it's original new price and some appreciation. To compare it to a 80's,90's Cutless Olds is not relivent here. Those Olds are depreciated out to where you get what you can for them.
Gibson F5s seldom if ever depreciate. Can an 80's be worth the same price as a 2000? Yes. It could be less too.
Take these signature models going for $5000. Who saw that coming? A wise investor would buy up any F5 $5000 and under and just sit on them and wait. But if I were that smart I would have drove all over the East Coast on my 50 cent gas in my '66 Olds Vista Cruiser Station Wagon and bought every signed Loar for sale in the 1960's for less than $1500. I believe that old wagon would have held some 100 F5s.

Eddie Sheehy · 03-09-2009, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bernie Daniel

I think you could find one for $3800 if you closely watch the market -- like eBay and the like. Every now and then someone has to move one -- or one will come of for sale that has cosmetic damage.

I bought a dynamite 2002 F-5 Fern for a very good price because it had a few small chips (microphone?), some finish worn off the back of the neck and the frets were ready for some attention.

I fixed the cosmetic things with dyes, nitro, and micromesh myself -- and had the frets and a setup done by a pro -- and now you'd almost never know it wasn't a mint mando -- you'd have to look real close.

I think I got a great deal and now I have a great sounding, great playing, and great looking mandolin (IMO).

You could do the same thing.

Closer than that.....

woodwizard · 03-09-2009, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by f5loar

Take these signature models going for $5000. Who saw that coming? A wise investor would buy up any F5 $5000 and under and just sit on them and wait. But if I were that smart I would have drove all over the East Coast on my 50 cent gas in my '66 Olds Vista Cruiser Station Wagon and bought every signed Loar for sale in the 1960's for less than $1500. I believe that old wagon would have held some 100 F5s.

Wouldn't it be nice to go back to that time and do just that. Dream dream dream

mandolirius · 03-09-2009, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton

Don't find it strange. It's really easy to start a thread. If you want to discuss something just start the thread. I respect David Grisman but I really don't think I need to live my life doing what he thinks is right. Do you? If you want to discuss mandolin music there are a more than a few places you can post those threads. No reason to be disrespectful of the other members that are posting here.

I don't think there's anything in my post that shows disrespect, or that indicates I think anyone needs to "live their life doing what he thinks is right."
It's an opinion that was expressed and I note that you went straight for the poster, not the post. I think your response was heavy-handed. To be honest, I think you abuse you status as moderator on a fairly regular basis. There, now you can go after me.

allenhopkins · 03-09-2009, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mandolirius

I wonder why there are so many threads like this and so few that actually discuss mandolin music. I hadn't really thought about it until I read Bill Graham's interview with David Grisman in which he made a similar comment. People will go on and on about the "mandolin market" but seem to have little interest in mandolin players or mandolin music. A thread about so-and-so's new recording will get only a few posts but one about the economics of buying and selling mandolins will go on for weeks. Like Grisman, I find it strange.

There are lots of threads about mandolin players and mandolin music a bit further down the page. This forum is "looking for info about mandolins" and that, I think, is the point of this thread.

I would guess that similar make/model mandolins of fairly recent vintage will sell for comparable, though not identical, prices. Is this surprising? With something as individual as a high-end instrument, there are bound to be variations and specific features that appeal to certain buyers. If one of the F-5L's was owned by, say, Sam Bush, would that put its value up a bit? If one had particularly figured wood, or an unusually bright or woody sound, someone might like it more or less for one of those reasons. There are "blue books," like Gruhn's Guide, for instrument prices, but you're talking about such a small number of transactions, at such widely separated intervals and locations, that it's hard to plot an axis through the data points. "Value" is, after all, opinion, and "market value" is just opinion backed up by money.

03-06-2009, 04:27 PM	#1
frankenstein Registered User Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 410	Gibson f-5 L Just one question. Should used Gibson F-5L's ( made in the 80's... 90's... and this decade )assuming they are all in great condition, be the same price ??

03-06-2009, 07:23 PM	#2
Bernie Daniel Certified! Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Cincinnati, "Round on each end High in the middle" Posts: 1,996 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Gibson f-5 L My personal opinion is that the ones made from about 2000 on are generally the best and it seems to me that right around 2002 or so they finally really put everything togather and start making really great mandolins again. That said I think any of the mandolins after the Flatiron take over are certainly respectable. The Flatirons and the Gibsons immediately after the purchase of Flatiron in 1987 had the bolt on neck and I'm not sure about the exact year the switch over to the compound dovetail started -- I think was when mandolin production move back to Tennessee. But that element seems to be important to some. But I once had a chance to picke on of the Bill Monroe special issue F-5's a camp and it is hard to see how a mandolin could be much better than that one and it had the bolt-on neck. A lot of people will pay for the Carlson signature others want the Derrington or Roberts or Daley or whatever. So I think the personal preferences outweights a lot of things -- I have seen great examples of all those periods. __________________ Bernie ____ "Pro" is to be for something and Con is to be aginst it. If PROgress is good, what is CONgress?

03-08-2009, 12:30 AM	#3
f5loar Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Salisbury,NC Posts: 2,944	Re: Gibson f-5 L Yes.

03-09-2009, 07:43 AM	#4
Timbofood Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Kalamazoo, MI. Posts: 739	Re: Gibson f-5 L Isn't that rather like asking if all Oldsmobile Cutlasses from time frame "A" to "B" be worth the same? I would venture that to be a very difficult question to answer. It does not take into consideration anything about condition not to mention sound/playability. I would respectfully disagree with you F5Loar, and, if we are using one word answers be forced to say "no" or maybe more accurately "Why?" Sorry, just re read OP even if they are in "like" condition, I think the argument still stands. Interesting concept though __________________ Timothy F. Lewis

03-09-2009, 07:47 AM	#5
MikeEdgerton Moderator Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 8,471	Re: Gibson f-5 L I'm assuming that Tom is basing his yes on what they have been selling for and not on a personal opinion. Wishing it were so doesn't determine the price, the price is determined by what people are paying for them.

03-09-2009, 08:08 AM	#6
chip Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Carmel Valley Posts: 546	Re: Gibson f-5 L I don't see the Loars coming down on price even though people aren't buying them. They seem to all stay in the $165,000+ price. Unless someone is having extreme financial difficulties I don't see prices fluctuating much on used instruments. Values remain stable.

03-09-2009, 06:11 PM	#8
frankenstein Registered User Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 410	Re: Gibson f-5 L If the price is determined by what people are paying for them then what is that price ?? I can see differences in these models from each decade but can't quite understand how those differences equate to being the same dollar value in the end.. The same model Gibson guitar does not hold the same value through the decades.. What gives?? and don't say YES..

03-09-2009, 06:31 PM	#9
MikeEdgerton Moderator Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 8,471	Re: Gibson f-5 L What gives is simple. You asked if they should be (we assumed you meant) selling for the same price, the answer is yes. The why is because people are buying them at that price. For justification you need to talk to the people that are buying them, they obviously see the value. This really isn't anything anyone would have a cut and dried answer for. I learned a long time ago that mandolins do things in the market that guitars don't do. I don't have an answer for that either.

03-09-2009, 07:12 PM	#11
Eddie Sheehy Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Irvine, CA Posts: 1,930	Re: Gibson f-5 L I agree. All the F5-L's in the Classifieds should sell for the same price - I propose $5,000. All those in favour? And next I'd like to recommend a price for ALL Loars.... __________________ Expensive Kindling with Strings

03-09-2009, 08:35 PM	#13
mandolirius Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: victoria, canada Posts: 1,636	Re: Gibson f-5 L I'm not sure I understand the point of this thread. All of "anything" doesn't sell at the same price. Unless you're looking at buying one, this seems like a pointless question with no real answer. I wonder why there are so many threads like this and so few that actually discuss mandolin music. I hadn't really thought about it until I read Bill Graham's interview with David Grisman in which he made a similar comment. People will go on and on about the "mandolin market" but seem to have little interest in mandolin players or mandolin music. A thread about so-and-so's new recording will get only a few posts but one about the economics of buying and selling mandolins will go on for weeks. Like Grisman, I find it strange.

03-09-2009, 08:47 PM	#16
frankenstein Registered User Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 410	Re: Gibson f-5 L Sorry 'bout the sub questions.. i suppose "because" is a reasonable answer. A bit vague though..YES. My reasoning is unless an instrument is over say 30 years old then the value starts to increase, up until then the value languishes somewhat..I am not in the market for an F-5L at the moment but find this notion of same value intriguing..To me a say 1988 model should go for $3800 tops, but if they are willing to pay more, take it.... just because..

03-09-2009, 09:02 PM	#17
Eddie Sheehy Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Irvine, CA Posts: 1,930	Re: Gibson f-5 L "To me a say 1988 model should go for $3800 tops, but if they are willing to pay more, take it.... just because.. " That's hilarious since you are not even willing to buy one for less than that... Talk sho' is cheap... __________________ Expensive Kindling with Strings

03-09-2009, 09:03 PM	#18
frankenstein Registered User Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 410	Re: Gibson f-5 L By the way the point of any thread is to discuss and hopefully someone may draw conclusions or gain knowledge about aspects of instrument ownership. whatever that means.. We each have a different perspective,I don't get offended by opposing points of view.. So to some my question/s may seem pointless and or humorus but some may find these notions valid..

03-09-2009, 09:14 PM	#19
frankenstein Registered User Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 410	Re: Gibson f-5 L That's hilarious since you are not even willing to buy one for less than that... Talk sho' is cheap...[/QUOTE] you think? Think again..

03-09-2009, 09:32 PM	#20
Bernie Daniel Certified! Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Cincinnati, "Round on each end High in the middle" Posts: 1,996 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Gibson f-5 L I think you could find one for $3800 if you closely watch the market -- like eBay and the like. Every now and then someone has to move one -- or one will come of for sale that has cosmetic damage. I bought a dynamite 2002 F-5 Fern for a very good price because it had a few small chips (microphone?), some finish worn off the back of the neck and the frets were ready for some attention. I fixed the cosmetic things with dyes, nitro, and micromesh myself -- and had the frets and a setup done by a pro -- and now you'd almost never know it wasn't a mint mando -- you'd have to look real close. I think I got a great deal and now I have a great sounding, great playing, and great looking mandolin (IMO). You could do the same thing. __________________ Bernie ____ "Pro" is to be for something and Con is to be aginst it. If PROgress is good, what is CONgress?

03-09-2009, 09:59 PM	#21
f5loar Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Salisbury,NC Posts: 2,944	Re: Gibson f-5 L You are not suppose to discuss mandolin music here. There are other places on the cafe to do that in and then there is comando. Here is discussed Looking For Information About Mandolins stuff and questions like this would fall under that category. When I said just "yes" it was in response to the "should". Yes they should but don't mean they do as others have pointed out. Generally any F5 should retain it's original new price and some appreciation. To compare it to a 80's,90's Cutless Olds is not relivent here. Those Olds are depreciated out to where you get what you can for them. Gibson F5s seldom if ever depreciate. Can an 80's be worth the same price as a 2000? Yes. It could be less too. Take these signature models going for $5000. Who saw that coming? A wise investor would buy up any F5 $5000 and under and just sit on them and wait. But if I were that smart I would have drove all over the East Coast on my 50 cent gas in my '66 Olds Vista Cruiser Station Wagon and bought every signed Loar for sale in the 1960's for less than $1500. I believe that old wagon would have held some 100 F5s.