Scalloped fretboard and faux frets?

[HogTime]

I want a scalloped fretboard extension and faux frets on the F5 I'm building. I saw one builder installs silver wire into the slots before scalloping. What else is used for this?

I don't have a drill press, so I was going to use a sanding drum in my portable drill for the scalloping. I thought I'd clamp the drill horizontal above a work surface and run the fretboard between the surface and the sanding drum to scallop it. Think that will work?

Thanks,

[Phil Goodson]

I have 2 mandos with scooped extensions and faux frets. One was done with strips of binding in the fret slots. The other was done with silver wire.

Both look good. The silver wire looks the better of the two.

[John Arnold]

I'm not a mandolin buider, but scalloping fretboards on the mandolin is something that is frequently requested. I generally use a 1/2" or 1" mortise chisel to start, but it is better if the owner isn't looking. I proceed to a round rasp, then scraper and sandpaper.
The sanding drum in the drill press is the preferred method for scalloping the bare fingerboard. I clamp a backer block to the table, and make several passes, feeding against the rotation. I use the same setup to make the 'scoops' on the ends of a guitar bridge.
I guess that what you propose would work, just make sure you take small 'bites'.

[craigw]

Ralph, I've used silver wire as well as silver solder (wire) on one occasion. You need to get it in a small enough guage to fit snugly in the fret slot by tapping it in or widen the slot to accomodate it. The best source for the silver wire is a jewelers supply. I get mine from Otto Frei but there are others out there you might check out. One caution is that it it tends to tear out when leveling with the grain of your fb so you need to file cross ways to avoid that. I've also used opaque plastic strips that you can get easily by cutting them out of the flat side of a plastic milk jug. Lay the strips in the fret slots prior to binding and apply superglue. They level really easy and look great and nobody has to know what they are unless you tell them. I think it is a hilarious (and cheap)luthiery supply and I used it after reading a thread where Lynn Dudenbostel did the same. I was up at Wintergrass a couple weeks ago and saw some of Fletcher Brock's faux frets where he used strips of white maple. He widens the frets slots the same width as his fret wire and installs the maple of like width. They looked quite stunning in a finished mandolin fb.
I scallop my fretboards during the building process by the use of my thicknessing drum sander. You could also set up a jig on your drill press with the use of dp sanding drums kind of like the "luthiers friend" jig that Stew-Mac sells. Harbor Freight actually carries a drill press sanding drum kit which could be used for many of your shop functions. Good luck with it.

[craigw]

Ralph, I missed the fact that you don't currently have a drill press. Check yard sales. You can probably find a good buy on a decent drill press (as well as other tools) in this present economy.

[Gail Hester]

I use silver wire and I've recently found square wire which makes it much easier. Just remove the frets you want gone (or don't install them) and then take a round file (1/4 inch or so) leaving an eighth of an inch past the last fret real fret. Then take a sander, block or file and take the extension down until you have about 1/32" of the slot left. I then deepen and broaden the slots to match whatever material you want to install. I use a nut file that's about the same size as my Silver wire to make the final slots for the fake frets. I glue them in and do the final sanding and polishing. Here's a picture. It's very simple and quick.

[Paul Hostetter]

Ralph - you are using the term "scallop" but I don't think this is what you mean. Some folks are responding with the term scoop, which is something very different, and I think more appropriate.

Scalloped:


Scooped:


I think the terms are worth keeping separate.

When I do this operation to an instrument that already had a normal fretted extension, I try to end up with no visible frets, as in Frank Ford's photo above. In other words, I scoop below the bottoms of the fret slots. But I understand why some folks might want to keep the look, and Gail's technique is a good one. The problem is, in order to get the end of the board out of the way for best picking, it has to be pretty thin. In order to keep enough slot to hold something that looks like a fret, it needs to be thicker. Good luck finding the acceptable compromise.

[Paul Hostetter]

PS: I've never needed a drill press for this operation - it's all done by hand. And as Gail says, faux frets or not, it's pretty quick and simple.

[Rick Turner]

Scalloped frets on a mando might get you into U. Srinivas territory. Incredible player...

[Joel Thomas]

Yeah, see... for a second I thought we were talking Malmsteen mandolin or something...

[Gail Hester]

When I see scalloped I just assume we’re talking about scooped. The term scalloped makes me think of Ritchie Blackmore or that well worn 1959 tele I had in the shop awhile back.

[HogTime]

Thanks to all for the info. Yes, I definitely meant scooped. The other looks way too hard (to do and play).

[Bernie Daniel]

Paul Hostetter: you are using the term "scallop" but I don't think this is what you mean. Some folks are responding with the term scoop, which is something very different, and I think more appropriate.

Paul, I do not know that I have ever seen a "scalloped" fingerboard before. Maybe I just wasn't looking -- but why would this ever be done the first place? -- i.e., what is to goal or effect sought from it?

I will assume its to be able to get cleaner sound from the higher frets? If so that begs the question why don't more folks do it?

[JEStanek]

I first heard of the scalloped board when a co-worker had a custom e-guitar commissioned. He said it was to provide a cleaner sound when fretting. It certainly looks interesting. I wonder how much of an advantage it could provide a mandolin where the space between frets is so small to begin with... Paul, any thoughts?

Jamie

[Bernie Daniel]

JEStanek: I wonder how much of an advantage it could provide a mandolin where the space between frets is so small to begin with... Paul, any thoughts?

I was thinking the same thing except that I came to the conclusion it would be MORE help on a mandolin!

[resophonic]

The scooped area is also a good place for an inlay, why not have some fun with it?

A scalloped fingerboard would require a well developed playing style with a very light touch, definitely not for the heavy handed player.

[Rick Turner]

Mark Silber has a really interesting, beautiful, and over-the-top Phillip Interdonati guitar from the 1930s or so with a scalloped fingerboard and flush frets...the metal is the apex of each scallop. I guess Interdonati inlaid the wire...something like old Martin bar fretwire...flush with the ebony and then scalloped between each inlaid line. It plays like a dream.

[Joel Thomas]

Paul, I do not know that I have ever seen a "scalloped" fingerboard before. Maybe I just wasn't looking -- but why would this ever be done the first place? -- i.e., what is to goal or effect sought from it?

I will assume its to be able to get cleaner sound from the higher frets? If so that begs the question why don't more folks do it?

It allows you to bend strings and use ridiculous amounts of vibrato without much effort because your fingers have no friction with the fretboard. It takes a really light fretting hand though, for obvious reasons.

[Paul Hostetter]

I can't imagine what good it would do to scallop a mandolin board. The strings are so taut and, being doubled, they're a rather rigid ribbon your fingers slide on. The Interdonati iteration of this idea is pretty sweet. Danny Ferrington once built an electric bass that had an ebony board and carbon fiber frets made just this way, with the frets atop a gentle slope. It was like a fretless bass but with an intonation accuracy factor built in.

[sunburst]

A simple method, using hand tools here.
Stop short of the bottoms of the slots for "faux frets".

[HogTime]

John,

Thanks for the link. Very helpful. You know what they say about pictures vs. words. I think this was equivalent to about 28,000 words.

[Paul Hostetter]

And then some. Perfect.

[sprucetop1]

Fred van Eps made flush fret 5 string banjos with scoops between flush-fitting frets back in the first 20 yrs. of the 20th. century. I've played on one and it was an exceptionally comfortable banjo to play. Beautifully made too.

[Michael Gowell]

Back to faux frets...my '05 Sumi S-5 3-point has fake frets on the florida that appear to be very thin slivers of bamboo. The transition to them from the fretboard's banjo frets, plus a slight slope instead of a scoop, provide most of the advantages of increased room for the pick without any noticable aesthetic compromises. It's a detail with which each builder expresses an attitude towards the design/playability trade-off, I think.

[Bernie Daniel]

Michael Gowell: The transition to them from the fretboard's banjo frets, plus a slight slope instead of a scoop, provide most of the advantages of increased room for the pick without any noticable aesthetic compromises. It's a detail with which each builder expresses an attitude towards the design/playability trade-off, I think

Can you post a pic? Thanks.