The thing I like least about my mandolin

[Bryan T]

When I take it out of its case it is sharp. I've never had an instrument do that before and it drives me crazy. What happens that makes the strings go sharp?

Thanks,
Bryan

[Steve Ostrander]

String tension makes them go sharp.

[Bryan T]

Originally Posted by mad4mandos

String tension makes them go sharp.

None of my guitars, basses, lap steels, dobros, etc. go sharp, just the mandolin. What's different about the mandolin?

[Mike Scott]

It sucks! Just kidding. I think it has something to do with the humidity or temperature or something- a lot of tension on those strings compared to the other instruments. One of mine is always dead on the other one is generally flat when I take it out. Go figure.

Mike

[barney 59]

Humidity and or barometric pressure. Where I live the temperture stays almost the same year round,but when it rains I can count on every instrument I own going sharp.

[Bryan T]

Originally Posted by barney 59

Humidity and or barometric pressure. Where I live the temperture stays almost the same year round,but when it rains I can count on every instrument I own going sharp.

I'm in L.A. and have never had issues like this before. Is this more common with mandolins?

[allenhopkins]

Happens to a lot of instruments; I find Autoharps go sharp when I tune them in a drier environment, then pop them back in my more humid basement. Wood absorbs moisture from the air and expands slightly, stretching the strings out more.

Other possibility might be too-tight slots in the nut, which don't let all the additional tension you put on the strings when you tighten them, be transferred to the entire string length. As the instrument sits for a prolonged period of time, the tension may equalize, and the strings may become more tense (sharper) between nut and bridge. However, if you tune the mandolin up and play it for awhile, the playing action should work the strings in the nut slots and allow the even distribution of tension along the strings' length.

So if you play it for half an hour, put it away in tune, and find it sharp when you take it out of the case, I would suspect that it's absorbing additional atmospheric moisture. And it could affect your mandolin more, if its construction is such that it absorbs the moisture more readily. I would hazard a guess (some knowledgeable person correct me if I err) that mandolins, having short-scale, higher-pitched strings, might exhibit the effects of humidity changes more noticeably than guitars, basses etc.

[brianunitt]

Originally Posted by Bryan T

I'm in L.A. and have never had issues like this before. Is this more common with mandolins?

I live in Southern California. A few ears ago I took my mandolin to Idylwild (5200 ft.), and got a vivid demonstration of the effects of pressure and humidity. The drop in pressure, plus the dryness made it go almost a half step flat. Then a thunderstorm came through, and it was a quarter step sharp.

[Lee]

The combination of a short scale length and the carved arch construction contribute to an instrument that will exhibit pitch changes due to differences in humidity.

There is friction at the nut and at the bridge. When you're finished playing the string tension behind the nut and behind the bridge will be a little more taught as compared to the "speaking length" of the string. As the mando relaxes this extra tension can even out along the complete length of the string, which will make the speaking length go a little sharp.

[Lance K.]

Thanks for the answers. I've noticed this with my Collings MT and for the life of me couldn't figure out why. Loss of tension would make sense, but more tension I didn't understand. And its happened to me regularly all this winter in the rainy Pacific Northwest.

[Bryan T]

Originally Posted by Lance K.

I've noticed this with my Collings MT and for the life of me couldn't figure out why.

I have an MT, too, so I'm glad to hear it isn't just me.

Bryan

[Gerard Dick]

Bridge creep is another possibility. The string angle is greater on the tailpiece side of the bridge. This tends to slightly push the bridge toward the nut, shortening you scale length and sharping your notes. Happens on my archtop guitar too. Check your intonation.

[Santiago]

Also the cold will make your strings contract and tighten. Where do you keep it when not in use? When you play your hands really do warm it up.

[anzafrank]

I live at lake hemet (close to idylwild) at 4400 ft., and I have the same problem with both of my mandos, but not the guitar or banjo that i'm aware of. Couldn't figure it out at all!

Frank

[Ivan Kelsall]

Temperature !. I've found that when 'cold',both my Mandolins go sharp & when 'warm',both go flat.
Usually,when i take either out of it's case,it's cold & sharp by maybe 10 cents. As long as it's in tune with itself,i just play it like it is,within half an hour it's back to being properly 'in tune'. Constantly slackening & tightening the strings by such small amounts,when i know that when it warms up/cools down,i'm going to have to re-tune,is something i've stopped doing,
Saska

[Fretbear]

One thing that is kind of neat is how consistantly sharp it can go; the entire instrument is still perfectly tuned to itself, but sharp. It is more annoying to me to have to flatten a perfectly in-tune mandolin to get it to pitch than it is to tune one that is at least out of tune....

[barney 59]

Originally Posted by Bryan T

I'm in L.A. and have never had issues like this before. Is this more common with mandolins?

I think mandolins are more fussy than guitars and I've always thought that it had to do with the short string length but now I have this banjo here and they're the worst! `
An old girlfriend of mine and I had this oldtime music thing we did and we were hired by the National Park Service to travel around and do these little nightime campfire shows to entertain the campers. The only problem was we had to perform next to a bonfire with constant changing temperatures and to try and stay in tune was so difficult. We started out by standing but found that if we sat on the ground and tried to squeeze ourselves as small as possible we could find the spot with the most consistant temperature and the least amount of retuning. So it was sort of a combination oldtime music and circus contortionist show.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Hey Fretbear !, that's exactly it in one. Like i said, i personally just leave it to warm up these days
unless i want to play along with something,then there's no option.
I have a lovely Tanglewood Guitar with solid Rosewood back & sides & Engleman spruce top,that i'm ashamed to say,i hardly play.Over 6 moths ago i put new strings on it & tuned it up.After an hour or so playing it,it had gone a bit flat (strings stretching),i tuned it up & put it back in it's case. I played it last week for the first time since then,as i had a friend come down to my home & he wished to see it - it was perfectly in tune,much to my surprise i might add,but in tune it was,
Saska

[mandozilla]

The thing I like least about my mandolin is that it's not a Lloyd Loar! HaHaHa


But really, the thing I like least about my mandolin is that it needs a set up and I'm on a d*mn waiting list!

[Denny Gies]

Allen H. has it correct; the durn things pork out in a humid environment.

[allenhopkins]

Originally Posted by barney 59

...now I have this banjo here and they're the worst!

Banjo heads, if made of calfskin or other animal skin, are definitely hyper-sensitive to temperature and humidity changes. Modern Mylar etc. heads are somewhat less so. You find banjos from the '20's and '30's wired with electric lights inside the shell; these were partially for theatrical effect, and partially to provide heat to keep the banjo head taut.

I was using one of my 19th-century banjos for a Civll War songs workshop at the New England Folk Festival a decade ago, and left it outdoors in the sun for 20 minutes before my start time. Passers-by twice thoughtfully moved it into the shade to avoid "damage"; I had to tell them that I was deliberately heating it up to get the head taut as possible!

As any bodhran player about the effects of humidity...

[earthsave]

I think my neck angle is a little too steep. When I had it setup to lower the action, the luthier thought the neck angle was a little too steep and lowered my action as best possible without thinning out the bridge too much.

It's still higher than ideal, but I've learned to live with it. It does have a great sound for the value.

[woodwizard]

Hmmmmmmm ?... the thing I like least Hmmmmmm ... NOTHING ... I am a happy camper

[Coffeecup]

Originally Posted by Fretbear

One thing that is kind of neat is how consistantly sharp it can go; the entire instrument is still perfectly tuned to itself, but sharp. It is more annoying to me to have to flatten a perfectly in-tune mandolin to get it to pitch than it is to tune one that is at least out of tune....

You would think somebody would come up with a mandolin with an adjustable neck. Instead of tweaking each string, wind the neck in and out.

Saska, isn't the humidy in Manchester constant at 95%? Love the Tanglewood! At a couple of years old now, mine keeps sounding better and better.

[roberto]

The thing I like least about my mandolin is ME.