Baldassaris unsigned LL

[John Kinn]

I have a Butch Baldassari instructional video where he plays an unsigned LL.Video may be around 20 years old.This instrument sounds fantastic(I guess Butch B. could have made most mandos sound equally great), but nevertheless. Does anyone have information about this instrument?

[Will Kimble]

What would you like to know? It is a lacquer finished unsigned Loar from 1925. Butch liked banjo fretwire on this instrument, and he had the end of the fingerboard shortened a LONG time ago. I think he told me he bought it from Bernie Leadon in 1979 for something like 7K? I could be wrong about these memories... He said everybody thought he was crazy to spend that much...

I think the last time I saw it Butch had replaced the tailpiece with a James. I believe it has Gotoh tuners and I think Sim Daley made the pickguard. Butch had to have a pickguard on his mandolins, because he would plant his pinky (pinky & ring?) on the guard when playing that gorgeous & distinctive tremolo.

It is a great sounding mandolin and made a big impression on me. And Butch could really bring out the best from it. I refretted it once, played it on many occasions and have a handful of measurements and tracings from it if you are looking for something specific.

Best wishes,
Will Kimble

PS: Yes, Butch could make most any mandolin sound great. But he really liked that one.

[John Kinn]

Thank you very much! Sitting here in Norway, it's a great thing for a happy amateur to get such fascinating information from insiders/experts via this message board.When I started out on bluegrass mandolin some 15 years ago, Butch's instructional videos were my first encounter. Later I bought Sam Bush, Tim O'Brien and the big man Monroe himself, but until this day I have never heard a better sound from a mandolin than what Butch got out of that instrument. And every time I listen to a new mandolin recording, I subconsciously compare the sound to that of Baldassari's Loar...And its always a tiny bit better than everything else...One thing I wonder abouy, though: What is the reason for some Loars being unsigned? Thanks again!

[Will Kimble]

Some other things that might help - Butch always used a rounded "Dawg" shaped pick. This was no accident, as he had studied Grisman's music & tone intently. I saw him use clown barfs and "Dawg" picks but he usually used tortoise shell picks. They were a little thinner than you might expect. He taught me the way to get volume out of the rounded pick was to keep it parallel to the strings - don't angle it like you would a pointed pick.

He used J74s on the unsigned, but always swapped out the 15s for 16s. He had a cool way of tying off the strings so they locked on themselves and didn't leave a bunch of windings on the tuner shaft.

There is a small batch (somewhere around a dozen?) of mandolins referred to as unsigned Loars. These instruments were supposedly started while Loar was still employed by Gibson but were finished after he left. I think half are varnish and half are lacquer. I have played at least three (maybe four?) and they have all been exceptional. Seems like they are the only ones with top bound headstocks and flowerpots? And after the unsigneds come the first of the Ferns. I am not sure why they went from Fern Loars to unsigneds with flowerpots and back to Ferns.

I have been thinking about Butch a lot today. It feels good to share some of these memories.

Will Kimble

[gregjones]

He used J74s on the unsigned, but always swapped out the 15s for 16s.

Will,

Do you think that may be to equal out the tension of the string pairs? This thread got me thinking about that.

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...tension+string

Thanks

[woodwizard]

This is a great thread. I too am one of the many that is simply amazed at the tone Butch could get out of any mandolin. Just lately I have been studying a couple of his lesson books and they just seem to click for me. It is a pleasure to my ears to hear him play all those old fiddle tunes. And learn them from him. Wish I could have met him and seen him play in person.

[John Kinn]

Thanks again! To round this up, it would be nice if someone had some pics of the aforementioned mandolin. And thanks to BB for all the lovely mandolin music!

[SternART]

Butch also played his F5C (Classical) Gilchrist on many recordings. These are sweet sounding instruments, but once again....he could pull some tone out of it. It is pictured on several of his CD covers, looks like a violin, no burst.

[Big Joe]

I have played Butch's mandolin and it was a great mandolin. Needless to say, it sounded much greater in his hands. He has about the best double stops of any I've heard. I got several tortoise picks for him several years ago. Charlie D's mandolin and Butch's were fairly close in serial numbers, but Charlie's was varnish while Butch's was lacquer. It certainly is a shame both players are silent to us except in our minds and spirits. I too have been thinking of Butch quite a bit lately.

[Scott Tichenor]

Butch played this mandolin at one of our last Mandofests in Lawrence a few years back. I remember him kicking off the first tune of his set and the mandolin players in attendance--me included--being amazed at his tone even though we'd heard him many times. Also remember Bill Collings who was there taking a long hard look at the instrument and picking Butch's brain about the mandolin and what made it sound so wonderful. It's a remarkable instrument, but Butch's hands were what really made it great.

[Jim Roberts]

Amen, Scott.

That was a very special night at Mandofest.

[Glassweb]

There is a small batch (somewhere around a dozen?) of mandolins referred to as unsigned Loars. These instruments were supposedly started while Loar was still employed by Gibson but were finished after he left. I think half are varnish and half are lacquer. I have played at least three (maybe four?) and they have all been exceptional. Seems like they are the only ones with top bound headstocks and flowerpots? And after the unsigneds come the first of the Ferns. I am not sure why they went from Fern Loars to unsigneds with flowerpots and back to Ferns.

There are also signed Loars from the same batch (Loar's last) as the "unsigneds" and they too have the binding facing forwards on the headstock. Many of the instruments from this batch (Dec. 1) also had gold-plated hardware. The two best mandolins I've played are my current Loar and the old Aubrey Haney "unsigned" that I once owned. They are both from that last, mixed up batch of signed and unsigned Loars. Elderly has a signed Dec. 1st for sale that is currently residing in Colorado. If I were shopping for a Loar that's the one I'd be checking out...

[Skip Kelley]

I picked with Butch a few years back at Roanoke, Va and was blown away by the tone coming from that mandolin! He told me he preferred it over any mandolin he had. He liked his Gil and said his Nugget was loud but didn't have the tone of his unsigned Gibson. But, then, he could make any mandolin sing.

[lenf12]

A few years ago, before moving to Florida, I played with the Providence Mandolin Orchestra and Butch was a guest performer with the orchestra. He brought his "unsigned" Loar, his Gilchrist classical and asked to borrow an F-5 type from someone in the orchestra. I loaned him my (at the time) 1996 Gibson F-5G, signed by Bruce Weber. Butch changed strings to his preferred brand and tuned it in "Get Up John" tuning. Needless to say, his Loar and Gilchrist mandolins sounded incredible but he also made my F-5G sound equally amazing. He seemed quite pleased with the instrument as he played. The tone was all in his hands and he was able to coax every bit of sound out of any instrument he played. That evening was magical to say the least. All of that talent, taste and his quiet sense of humor and kindness are greatly missed by many of us Butch fans and friends.

Len B.
Clearwater, FL
(wishing I still owned that F-5G too!!)