Fretboard Alternatives

[BanjoPlayer]

I'm gathering materials to build my first mando and am wondering what effects the wood that the fretboard is made of makes? Is ebony used mainly because of its dark color? What i'm thinking is using something like black walnut with a dark stain finish on it to make the fretboard out of and also laminating a stripe of the black walnut down the center of the neck. The back, sides, and neck will be tiger stripe maple. Basicly are there any downfalls to using a wood that is less dense than ebony?

[crazymandolinist]

Originally Posted by BanjoPlayer

I'm gathering materials to build my first mando and am wondering what effects the wood that the fretboard is made of makes? Is ebony used mainly because of its dark color? What i'm thinking is using something like black walnut with a dark stain finish on it to make the fretboard out of and also laminating a stripe of the black walnut down the center of the neck. The back, sides, and neck will be tiger stripe maple. Basicly are there any downfalls to using a wood that is less dense than ebony?

Yes, the harder the wood the better the fretboard but the differences are so minor I wouln't even bother using ebony if I didn't already have some on hand. People use ebony because it's one of the hardest woods known to man and therefore has a very good rep, but any dense hardwood will do. Walnut will do just fine. Good luck on your project.

[BanjoPlayer]

thanks crazymandolinist for the fast answer, that is kind of what i was thinking. I'm sure this is just one of many questions i'll have before undertaking this project

[Geoff B]

I'm not sure it would make a big deal tonally, but I'm sure folks would argue that the difference in mass/stiffness may change things in resonances, 'Q" and body mode. I'd say go for it!

I am currently doing a "sweep the floor" model (new thread soon) with all scraps from around my shop. I'm using bloodwood for the fretboard, peghead and bridge.

Good luck on the project!

[grandmainger]

If it's mostly not-black you're after, you could try to find a nicely contrasted piece of Macassar ebony... The colour tones would be closer to walnut, but the would be also be harder and denser...

[Steevarino]

M-m-m-m-macassar..... M-m-m-m.....

A couple of things to consider when choosing which wood to use for a fretboard.... The bigger the fretboard, the more difference the wood choice will make in the tone dept. This seems to be a bigger concern for b@njo builders than mandolin builders. Most likely because the fretboard is a lot bigger on a b@njo. I have recently found out that fretboard wood choice can also be a fairly hot issue with electric guitar builders, and also with acoustic guitar builders.

Since a mandolin fretboard is so small, it probably makes less of a difference, tonally. There are a couple of other things to consider though. One is the wear factor. Ebony is nice and hard, and it wears well. Rosewood wears well too. Once you get into woods that are softer than this, wear might become a factor. Maple necked Telecasters seem to have held up fine through the years, but I'm sure we've all seen some divots in this kind of well worn fretboard.

One thing that I have discovered in my own shop, even though ebony might cost more as a material, it is extremely forgiving in the area of filling in around inlays, defects, etc. I buy the black cyano from StewMac, and that is really all there is to it. Inlay gaps become invisible. If there is a pinhole, or some other defect, they disappear with black cyano. Rosewood, walnut, and most other woods have grain patterns and non-black colors that you have to deal with, making fill-in work much less obvious, and therefore harder to do a good job on.

Geoff, I can't wait to see your "Floor Sweepings" mandolin. I'm all about stuff like that!!!

[bryce]

Black Walnut can go from fairly hard to real soft. I'd find the most dense piece I could and it should last a long time. It can depend on who's playing it. I think some of the old Harmony guitar fingerboards were part of the poplar like necks they had. Some of them held up.

[sunburst]

Wear is a major factor when it comes to fingerboards. The large pores in rosewood can make it wear much more than ebony. Walnut is softer than either rosewood or ebony and has pretty large pores. I don't think of it as a good fingerboard material, especially considering the wear some players are capable of inflicting on a 'board.

[EdHanrahan]

[QUOTE=Steevarino;636382]Maple necked Telecasters seem to have held up fine through the years, but I'm sure we've all seen some divots in this kind of well worn fretboard.
QUOTE]

The concensus of Fender fans is that, all else being equal (and on Teles and Stratocasters, they CAN BE be equal), the rosewood fingerboard gives a mellower tone while the maple sounds a bit crisper. I initially disliked the feel of the maple's gloss finish, compared to the rosewood's oil (I presume), but grew to enjoy it.

But IMHO, I suspect that many mando folks would find the resulting divots and dark splotches of a worn-thru maple neck finish to be fairly objectionable, as in Ugg-Lee!

- Ed

[oldwave maker]

A shot of some I'm using in the current litterbuild: 2 brazilian rosewood, 2 african blackwood, 2 desert ironwood, a honduran rosewood, and a local black walnut. The blackwood is my favorite, next brazilian, tho the hondo rings like a marimba, and the local black walnut is about the same density as the brazilian board I had a while back. Most of the banjogeeks I know want rosewood, possibly to indulge their earlfetish......

[man dough nollij]

Bill, those FBs look great! I especially like the Ironwood. Would it be an option to use that on my mesquite/cedar oval? Tasty!

[alltunator]

Originally Posted by bryce

Black Walnut can go from fairly hard to real soft. I'd find the most dense piece I could and it should last a long time. It can depend on who's playing it. I think some of the old Harmony guitar fingerboards were part of the poplar like necks they had. Some of them held up.

This is an interesting thread. . . I am working on converting an old Kay archtop into a mandocello right now. Decided to replace the fretboard and install a trussrod while I'm there. I planed the board off the neck. The neck appears to be poplar and the board was stained mahogany as far as I can tell. Sorta like second-string materials for an economy guitar I guess. I guess the mahogany held up OK considering it's over 50 years old, but it looked pretty ratty where the darker stain had been worn through and you could see the lighter wood.

Andy

[Mandolin]

I really like that first Desert Ironwood.... Where did you get it?

[oldwave maker]

Luke- been cutting into this ironwood chunk salvaged by a customer in southern arizona and delivered to my front porch by another:
I've used walnut from 3 sources- virginia(cut in the 30's for chesapeake bridge shoring, salvaged in the 70's and cut into 12" 1x24's) illinois(kd sawmill stuff from the illinois river valley), and a local desert canyon log(traded a mando for a 12' x 30" diameter long-dead-standing trunk). Cut and weighed same size blocks of each, the illinois kilndried was twice the weight of the saltwater cured virginia, the local deadstanding was twice the weight of the illinois. The old fiddlemaker I apprenticed with in the last century commented that this canyon walnut was as hard as hammered owl s**t! I've never even found unhammered large enough to do a fretboard.....

[shawnee creek]

osage orange dyed black makes a good hard frentboard. The natural yellow is too bright for me

[Skip Kelley]

Nice fretboards Bill!

[Mandolin]

Bill, did you tell me that is all gone?

[Bill Snyder]

Originally Posted by shawnee creek

osage orange dyed black makes a good hard frentboard. The natural yellow is too bright for me

It does not stay yellow.

[shawnee creek]

I've made one that I left natural and lacquered but I didn't care for that look. I've let it oxidize, but I think I like it either black or dark brown. Either way it's still hard.

[oldwave maker]

Luke- I have very little of that african blackwood, dalbergia melanoxylon, from sub-saharan africa, more of the desert ironwood, tesota gregii, from sub-saharan arizona.
The oxidized edge of an osage orange board, showing orange, on top of another favorite, ziricote, cordia dodecandra, which can look like a wood version of picture jasper.
Can you tell I love rummaging thru the scrap bins at woodworker supply outfits?

[D.E.Williams]

Osage, Persimmon, and Black Locust are all native species that are very hard and wear decently. Persimmon is a member of the Ebony family. Black Locust is (supposedly) related to Brazilian Rosewood, although I think that it may be that it just measures similar to it as far as density and damping factor. Osage not only weras well, it has great tonal properties, again very similar to Brazilian Rosewood in damping factor. Cocobolo can make a striking fretboard, as can some Madagascar Rosewood.
For a really killer looking fretboard, try Snakewood, which also wears extremely well.
Ziricote (a fav of mine) can also make a great looking fretboard, although I did coin the phrase "Mexican Crackwood" for it many moons ago - with good reason when in reference to a guitar back and sides. As a fretboard it can be pretty durn good looking, exhibiting some beautiful "landscape" figure and spider-webbing.

[John Arnold]

Black locust is in the legume family, along with rosewood and a lot of other tropical hardwoods. The trees are a 'dead ringer' for Brazilian rosewood. I have dyed it black and used it for fingerboards.
Another much harder domestic wood that is a good candidate for fingerboards is Texas ebony, a legume from the southern tip of the state. It is not quite as hard as desert ironwood, but close. IMHO, desert ironwood must be one of the hardest woods....the pieces I have are harder than any ebony.
I generally think of regular black walnut (not canyon walnut) as being too soft for fretboards. Besides wear, you must also consider hardness in regard to the ability to hold frets, though they can always be glued in place with super glue.
I have heard good things about bastogne walnut, but I haven't had a chance to try it.

I think some of the old Harmony guitar fingerboards were part of the poplar like necks they had. Some of them held up.

A lot of those were maple boards on a poplar neck. Much worse were the older dyed pearwood fingerboards, which would generally chip badly during a refret. I think the dye would cause deterioration of the wood.