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Thread: The blues on mandolin?

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    Default The blues on mandolin?

    Recently, I went to a guitar center and bought a bunch of jaz picks and I find they're giving me lots more control over what I am doing. A friend also showed me a blues scale on guitar which I am playing on the mandolin. As far as the blues go, how are they played? Is it just improv and go with what feels good to you, or is there a method to the madness?

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    Registered User Galileo's Avatar
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    Default Re: The blues on mandolin?

    Don't know how much theory you've had to this point but here's where you basicically dive in. A 12 bar format is the form you'll start with and this usually is a I-IV-V chord structure. Does any of this sound familiar? Just trying to get a feel for how much you have at this point.

    Robert

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    Default Re: The blues on mandolin?

    I know generally how the notes go. I know how to construct the basic blues scale. I know the whole-steps and half-steps. I know that from E string, first fret is F, F#, G, G#, A, A#-BB, B, C, C#... and the same goes for the other strings, changing the notes depending on the string. That's about it.

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    Registered User Galileo's Avatar
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    Default Re: The blues on mandolin?

    You will get a lot of opinions on this, but with the blues scale you can cover the chord changes just fine. Listen to a bunch of blues on guitar and you'll see different ways this is handled: repeating motifs and phrasing, melodical/lyrical soloing, etc. Most blues mandolin you hear is generally centered around string band styling. That is not to say you can't approach the mando the same way a guiatrist might. The big difference is you can't bend mando stirings the way an electric guitarist can. You might check out some of the Steve James Homespun videos or Rich DelGrosso's educational material, both of those sources are very helpful. Heck, put on some of your favorite blues CDs, find the key, and just noodle with the blues scale in that key to start out.

    Just my two cents...YMMV

    Robert

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    Default Re: The blues on mandolin?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBlindBard View Post
    Is it just improv and go with what feels good to you, or is there a method to the madness?
    If you listen to recordings and live music a lot and have some jam experience, you can develop a blues intuition. It looks like just doing what feels good, but in reality it is a developed intuition about where to go.

    You can learn the science of it too, and the combination of experience and knowledge is unbeatable.

    Its like everything else, you gotta know what you are doing. But you can get there through watching and listening, combined with instruction (formal or informal).

    Once you know what you are doing, you can just do what you feel. Because what you feel will be the right thing to do.
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    Default Re: The blues on mandolin?

    I second Rich DelGrosso and his book Mandolin Blues. Learn the pentatonic scales, those are the blues scales combined with slides and pull offs, hammers, etc.. Also listen to one of our own members
    I have the world in a jug, and the stopper in my hand.

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    Default Re: The blues on mandolin?

    another good one
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    Default Re: The blues on mandolin?

    Ah, nice. Right now, I've just been playing blues scales, pentatonic ones. Making stuff up off of the top of my head that sounds bluesy. I rather enjoy it. allows me to get lost in the simplicity of making music, without worrying about hitting a bad note or something.

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    Registered User Elliot Luber's Avatar
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    Default Re: The blues on mandolin?

    Check out Jim Richter's Youtube channel. He'll show you.

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    Default Re: The blues on mandolin?

    Here's a lesson on Blues Shuffles he did.

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    Default Re: The blues on mandolin?

    Hi, just picked up on this thread, and thanks to pefjr for posting my vid - hope it was helpful!
    There are various other videos on my YouTube page and if you have a look and want any tips just ask

    Meantime here's one to be going on with ( and I refer to this in the tuition video above):


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    Default Re: The blues on mandolin?

    There is a magic bullet for bluesy (as opposed to straight blues) based mandolin, and it involves "extracting" one pentatonic scale from another. To play a bluesy mandolin solo in E for instance, you play notes from the E minor pentatonic scale, the relative minor scale from within the G major pentatonic scale, but played from E to E. The scale is minor but is generally played over major changes. It is different from just playing twelve-bar blues scales.
    But Amsterdam was always good for grieving
    And London never fails to leave me blue
    And Paris never was my kinda town
    So I walked around with the Ft. Worth Blues

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    Default Re: The blues on mandolin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fretbear View Post
    There is a magic bullet for bluesy (as opposed to straight blues) based mandolin, and it involves "extracting" one pentatonic scale from another. To play a bluesy mandolin solo in E for instance, you play notes from the E minor pentatonic scale, the relative minor scale from within the G major pentatonic scale, but played from E to E. The scale is minor but is generally played over major changes. It is different from just playing twelve-bar blues scales.
    Run that by me again ....real slow... I have an idea of what you are talking about , but can't quite put it together, so if you would explain further, I would appreciate it.
    I have the world in a jug, and the stopper in my hand.

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    Default Re: The blues on mandolin?

    Magic bullet for bluesy. Funny I posted a question about this scale ages ago. I had a book on rock guitar way back when (an American book) and the blues scale they used throughout was exactly the same. I wondered where it was derived from. It was very easy to use on the guitar and sounded quite impressive with a lot of hammers on and off. It sounds less impressive on the mandolin. Easy in first position G, for instance, but more uncomfortable as you move up the neck. In fact what fingering can anyone recommend for blues in G in second and third positions, for example. I use just fingers one, two and three in second position and then have to add four in third position. Any thoughts on this?

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    Default Re: The blues on mandolin?

    So you have the magic bullet Don Julin's blues scale and Marc Woodward's one and then you get the Andy Statman blue's scale, which, if I remember rights is: g, bflat,b,c, c sharp, f, e.

    Which one to choose, or mix all three!

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    Default Re: The blues on mandolin?

    What works for me now is the basic box pattern pentatonic. Sure you need that pinky when up the neck, but the same pattern. Then, add a slide, pull off, hammer, double note, doublestops, and a kitchen fry pan drum beat if it sounds good. You have basic blues scales and then along comes a Jimmy Reed, blowin a harp in his own scale and it sounds great with a guitar, and no one has duplicated "Big Boss Man" to this day. That one and a few more of his writings can't be copied, and neither can Jimmy Hendrix. They have their own blues. Andy Statman is also one of a kind, hard to copy, a mixture of bluegrass, blues, old Jewish Am sad notes, and popular 50's rock. His "Since I met you Baby" is a copy of a 50's hit done Andy's blues style.
    I have the world in a jug, and the stopper in my hand.

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    Default Re: The blues on mandolin?

    Could anybody tell me what it is for a minor blues scale, if there is one? how many half-steps and whole-steps it is for the pattern? I really like how you can take the general pattern and do it anywhere on the mandolin, it's nice.
    Thanks

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    Default Re: The blues on mandolin?

    Also: what do you mean by a box pattern? is that the basic pentatonic blues scale?
    Thanks for all of the help

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    Default Re: The blues on mandolin?

    Quote Originally Posted by ald View Post
    So you have the magic bullet Don Julin's blues scale and Marc Woodward's one and then you get the Andy Statman blue's scale, which, if I remember rights is: g, bflat,b,c, c sharp, f, e.

    Which one to choose, or mix all three!
    It's beginning to look like there may be as many blues scales as there are players. That can't be, of course - statistics and probability prove otherwise. But I have my own, which I'll get to in a minute. First I have to say this is probably not remembered right. A blues scale has to include the V note, which in G is D. And that Bb, B, C, C# section is suspect. IMO, natch. YMMV.

    What I generally play is a modified pentatonic scale, with a couple of flatted tones thrown in. These are sometimes called the blue notes. The minor scale in G is G A B D E G - five notes, hence the name. (The IV and VII tones (C and F#) are omitted from the standard scale to produce this.) To these I add Bb and F, for G Bb B D E F G. (Note: Though C should be there, I don't usually play it, except of course when the song goes to the IV chord. Also, A gets passed over most of the time, in favor of Bb, at the IIIm spot - except, again, during the IV chord, of which it is the V tone.) This is what these look like on the strings:

    Pentatonic:

    o--x-x-x
    o-x--x-x
    o-x--x-x
    o-x-x--x

    My scale:

    ox-x--xx
    0xx--x-x
    o-xx-x-x
    o--xx--x

    Note: o = open string ; 0 = unplayed open string

    You see what a box pattern looks like there. These patterns repeatr up and down the neck and exist in all keys. I'm using G because there are open strings, and G is a pretty commone key for the mandolin. Not the blues, so much - that would be E and A - but for the mandolin. Once you get familiar with this you can transpose this to other keys. My favorite key for blues is probably A. You get that low G to A hammer-on, among other things.

    My standard blues run goes something like: G BbB D E | G FE D BbB | G where separate notes are quarter notes and the notes pushed together are two eighth notes - sort of. Since a lot of blues tunes are in 6/8 or 12/8 shuffle rhythms, these are played to correspond with that; I'm just trying to figure out some way to indicate longer and shorter notes.

    Hmmm. This got a lot more involved than I had intended. I know it looks like a lot, but once you get the hang of it it'll be pretty easy. There's a lot to learn, but the best approach is bit by bit. The journey of 1000 miles begins with a single step, the 15 minute solo begins with a single note, all that. Well, rinse and repeat, and repeat, take two whatevers, and call the Rock 'n" Roll Doctor in the morning, in a couple of weeks. Um, better make that in the afternoon.
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    Default Re: The blues on mandolin?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBlindBard View Post
    Also: what do you mean by a box pattern? is that the basic pentatonic blues scale?
    Thanks for all of the help
    No, a box pattern is a movable full scale, a pentatonic scale is only 5 notes and a pentatonic blues scale is ....uh undefinable,.... unless you have the recipe. It could be the basic 5 pentatonic scale of 12356 , or it could be 6, or 7 notes by adding notes with slides, hammers, pull offs, chords, tremolos, double stops, etc. It's a creation of your very own style. Watch Marc's video in post #6 again and again until it sinks in. Google: movable mandolin box scale patterns.
    Last edited by pefjr; May-21-2013 at 12:58pm.
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    Default Re: The blues on mandolin?


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    Default Re: The blues on mandolin?

    Quote Originally Posted by mandocrucian View Post
    the money is well spend on this one and is has all you ever need to know
    Carl Martin - Everyday I have the Blues

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    Default Re: The blues on mandolin?

    I still am not entirely sure what you are talking about-- could you possably try describing how you do a box pattern or is there a "pattern" to it like with the basic blues scale you could describe, possably?

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    Default Re: The blues on mandolin?

    box patterns have a basic predictable pattern that allows for intuitive playing and easy transposition. my tablature page has some free charts for you. Additionally my e book discusses them at length and my recordings use them extensively.

    http://www.jimrichter.com/?page_id=15

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    Default Re: The blues on mandolin?

    I like to think of the blues in terms of playing with tensions/resolutions of half steps. Play around with ii-biii-iii, iv-bv-v, vi-bvii-vii-i, and even ii-bii-i transitions. Especially the iv-bv-v. That's a very bluesy sound.

    But it always seems like a very playful music. Always trying to make tons of dissonance and then come out of it (or not). So be playful. Don't let the dissonance scare you away.
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