Mandolin in the classifieds

[Charles E.]

I would hope this is a great mandolin but $38,002- $43,000 !?
I don't mean Mr Williams any disrespect but it seems a lot for the eleventh build.

http://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/65019

[Marty Jacobson]

Err... yeah. When you consider what else is available for that money... two new Harvey-signed Gibsons? A couple of used Gilchrist F-5's? Gibson Fern?

[Clement Barrera-Ng]

I am a bit surprised by the asking price to say the least. Makes the '94 Gil that lists for 19k looks like a bargain.

[dcoventry]

Also, he will build with a top made from Adirondack or Red Spruce.

[almeriastrings]

The huge bolts holding the necks on are another nice touch..... really give the things a sheen of high-end finesse and desirability.

http://www.jlwcustomart.com/mandolins/mandolin14.html

http://www.jlwcustomart.com/mandolins.html

Looks like you get two free "adjustment sticks" (whatever they are) with them though, so probably a bargain at $40K....

[houseworker]

The huge bolts holding the necks on are another nice touch.....

I suspect those "huge bolts" are actually strap buttons.

It doesn't look like he's found too many takers yet: http://www.jlwcustomart.com/mandolinlist.html

[dcoventry]

Well, I did the logical thing and wrote to ask about the pricing.

[P.D. Kirby]

He sure has a lot of stock? Like all 15 that he has built... #1 & #2 are in his collection I would imagine. Rough Order of Magnitude Mr. Williams is sitting on a half a million dollars worth of these. Let's see that would be 2- 1923' Loar's with enough left over for a good steak dinner, I'll pass... Has anyone here ever heard of this guy? maybe played one of his Mandolins? As has been pointed out, at that price point he is jumping in the middle of the best known builders alive today... Sorry for the rambling but I am at a loss for something of value to say... Can't blame a guy for trying?

[houseworker]

He sure has a lot of stock? Like all 15 that he has built... #1 & #2 are in his collection I would imagine.

Looks like #9 has a proud owner somewhere. Hopefully they'll chime in at some point if they see this thread.

[lenf12]

I am always a little skeptical of anybody writing about themselves in the 3rd person as he does in this ad's copy. He also thinks very highly of his violin tuning pegs and mandolin tailpieces (see his other ads). Price range on his mandolins starts at $38,002. I just can't get those last $2. Oh well, I'll have to pass..................

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[Clement Barrera-Ng]

I suspect those "huge bolts" are actually strap buttons.
http://www.jlwcustomart.com/mandolinlist.html

Actually the neck is a bolt-on, removable type per the description in his ad:

the neck is removed by taking the brass or stainless steel screw and washer on the back of the body up on the neck end out

[f5loar]

Does this guy know Duane Eddy? Sounds like they are drinking/smoking the same stuff! Am I missing something here? Don't all luthiers pretty much go through the same process to build a really good mandolin? I recall Montelone was out there on those Radio Flyers prices a few years back but this......... so glad I was sitting down when I read it. I always heard the cost of living was way higher up North. I hope this is not the only means of an income for this luthier. Usually radical changes from the standard F5 design automatically brings less money. While some major changes are appealing others are not. I say let the market decide on this one but in the mean time I'll pass.

[f5loar]

Just read the ad more slowly this time and noticed this "the tailpiece is machined stainless steel three pieces with a hinge cover that you lift and hook the strings in place then close
this is this is a very unique tailpiece that most mandolins won't have anything similar and you will never lose your cover."
I guess he has never seen the Bill James Tailpiece that has been out about a decade or more. Never lost the cover on my BJ tailpiece either.

[Mandobar]

The guy is an artist, (see the sculptures), which is what his line of thinking is based on. He does not see the "utility" in mandolins. Meaning they are meant to be played, and not merely gazed upon in fine repose.

Ever have someone hand you their great looking mandolin, only to have it sound like dirt (if dirt even has a sound)? It kind of leaves you in that funny place where you wish you could set off your own cell phone so as to excuse yourself from having to make a polite comment while gritting your teeth.

[houseworker]

Actually the neck is a bolt-on, removable type per the description in his ad:

the neck is removed by taking the brass or stainless steel screw and washer on the back of the body up on the neck end out

Yes, it would have helped if I'd made my way all the way through the ad. There was just something about the literary style that meant I couldn't quite take it seriously (and the price didn't exactly help).

[dcoventry]

Ok, here's the response:

Dave, thank you for replying to my advertisement of JLW custom art limited edition custom mandolins. John has built 16 custom mandolins. These mandolins are all different. The inlay is on pick guard, armrests and fret boards, but on some there's different amounts of inlay, Some are plain and all and can be be interchanged. Even the neck's to make a mandolin look and feel the way you wanted it to. This will would also affect the price the range it would be $32,000-$45,000 depending on what you want. If you look on our website jlwcustomart.com you can see the pictures of all the mandolins, then you could pick one of them out and we could discuss what changes you would like to make.Some have been sold number 13 is out in California, number 9 is here in Massachusetts, and number 14 is in New York State. So those are unavailable. I hope to hear from you if you need more information. I certainly would be glad to give you any you need.

Thank you for your interest
John L Williams
jlwcustomart

[vetus scotia]

Maybe Mr Williams should take some of the proceeds from a sale and buy a decent camera. The photos on his site look like below average shots from a Cafe classifieds private sale. Way below.

[mrmando]

Great mandolin builders are also great designers: Kemnitzer, Monteleone, Andersen, insert name here. When they build something that deviates from the norm, they ensure that each component not only is beautiful in its own right, but (a) functions in service of making music; and (b) contributes to a unity of design that defines the mandolin as a single work of art rather than a collection of parts.

And that is exactly what we do not have here. Excessively narrow body points go off in all directions; headstock looks like it belongs on another mandolin and the pickguard looks like it belongs on a third mandolin; inlay looks like a tacky Vietnamese job; fretboard extensions are clumsily cut; f-holes poorly executed (on #14 the treble f-hole is closer to the rim, higher up toward the heel, and angled out more toward the edge, compared to the bass f-hole); finish work ranges from blase to godawful (his sunbursts are particularly hideous); tailpiece looks to be designed to impale your right hand. And yes, the photography is atrocious. People who expect to sell a mandolin for $40K should be able to hire a photographer to take decent pictures of it.

I went to an antique/estate sale on Saturday because they had a Gibson mandolin advertised. It turned out to be a teens A4. It had been refinished in an ugly dark sunburst with a heavy lacquer, which was now cracking and crazing in an extremely unattractive manner. There was no case; tailpiece, bridge and fretboard binding were cheap, non-Gibson replacements; the pickguard was missing (and the lady running the sale wanted to argue with me about whether it had one in the first place); and they didn't want to let me tune it up to see how it sounded. About the only thing it had going for it was the Handel tuners. But hey, they wanted $2K for it, because it's an objet d'art, don't you know? That's more or less the mentality we have with Mr. Williams. If you can't afford one of his mandolins, I bet he'd keep the wood shavings from his next one and sell you a box of them for $750.

Mr. Williams frequently puts his stuff on the Boston Craig's List, and I could be wrong, but I could swear that the last time I saw one of his ads there he only wanted around $20,000 for a mandolin. I dunno ... maybe someone was silly enough to buy one, and for every silly person there has to be someone else twice as silly.

[f5loar]

Wow, Mrmando, I could not have said it more nicely myself. It didn't take you long to break it down to simple terms. Hard to argue your facts and opinoin. So he has made 15 and only 3 sold is how I see it. New to the mandolin world I assume. Some of the backs looked like off-grade lumber too. Either he is real slow at making them and taking into account his actual man-hours or he needs to attend the IBMA expo to see what others are doing and charging for their craft. Even at $20,000 it would be reaching. I see a $3000 mandolin there without all the inlays. Of coarse there is a possible chance these do really have the punch factor to them with a sound that would make Monroe's Loar stand up and take notice. Anybody here on the cafe played one care to comment?

[almeriastrings]

There's one with an 'Adirondack spruce' back to match the top. That one must sound twice as good.

http://www.jlwcustomart.com/mandolins/mandolin3.html

The spray job is... er... I'm lost for words.

[mrmando]

Looks like the fretboard extensions are scooped, and the frets past 21 or so are inlaid.

I'm suspicious of the neck angle on these. Looks like the bridge is jacked way up to compensate for it.

According to this he was at Grey Fox in 2008 and Joe Val in 2009. So somebody must have tried these mandolins...

[Sheryl McDonald]

>> It kind of leaves you in that funny place where you wish you could set off your own cell phone so as to excuse yourself from having to make a polite comment while gritting your teeth.<<

you just say, "of all the ones I've heard, this is certainly one of them."

[P.D. Kirby]

Well at least Charles didn't put Mr. Williams name in the thread title so when you google his name this thread won't come up. I would sure hate for the Cafe to be the reason this slightly misguided artist doesn't make it as a Mandolin builder. Let's be real if you are a Bona fide builder of fine Mandolins someone on this site would know who you are and no matter the price several of our esteemed members would have at least played or seen one. That appears to not be the case. He even refers to himself in the third person in his emails. I think the boy must have bumped his head... I've noticed none of our resident well known proven builders have spoken, is this out of professional courtesy or are they just laughing too hard to type? Okay I'm done bashing but he did open himself up to it by not knowing the market or the potential customers however, I give him an A+ for Intestinal Fortitude! and I come away with a new appreciation for the finish on the Pac Rim imports.

[f5loar]

So glad PD Kirby got in on this. Always need his input. Good point about making the PacRim finishes look pretty darn good. Did anyone notice there is no mention of what type finish he uses? Lacquer? Varnish? Shellac? Now I'm no luthier but to me it looks like he used those $4 spray cans of Cabot Semi-Gloss Polyurethane. That No. 3 wood looks more like stump driftwood to me. Still no "hands on" pickers yet to come forth with a review! There has got to be reason for that price. We have to be missing something that is not showing in those photos.

[Charles E.]

I really meant no disrespect for the builder, he is an artist and jeweler as well. I was just surprised at the price. I hope he continues to follow his muse and who knows, maybe he is selling as many as he wants to.