Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 72

Thread: My beloved mandolin was DECAPITATED last night - what now?

  1. #26
    Registered User Tavy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Tavistock UK
    Posts
    2,503

    Default Re: My beloved mandolin was DECAPITATED last night - what now?

    Just to say +1 on the "get it repaired": broken headstocks are common, and unless they're a complete mess of splinters easy enough to repair. Don't go with anyone who mentions epoxy though, it has no place here!

  2. #27
    Registered User Tom Sanderson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Saint Augustine, FL
    Posts
    299

    Default Re: My beloved mandolin was DECAPITATED last night - what now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfmanbob View Post
    Shouldn't the fiddle player pay for this...not the insurance company?
    I say no, it's the owner's fault for being careless .

  3. #28
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Hollowville,NY
    Posts
    18

    Default Re: My beloved mandolin was DECAPITATED last night - what now?

    No advice here, but my sympathies. Years ago I owned a beloved Gurian Sr3 guitar. Had traded a Martin D35 for it in a New York minute after first hearing the Gurian. Anyway, I left the guitar on my bed one day to make a quick bathroom break only to hear a few seconds later the sound of it falling off the bed and snapping the headstock clean off. My not-yet-a-toddler son, whom I had been entertaining had reached it while navigating his walker close to the bed. The guitar was never the same and I learned an expensive but valuable lesson. In your hands, on a stand, or in the case. No exceptions. My sincerest sympathies. I've dealt with Weber, have them fix it if you really love that mandolin.
    Michael Carr

  4. #29
    ...but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    0.8 mpc from NGC 224, upstairs
    Posts
    5,795

    Default Re: My beloved mandolin was DECAPITATED last night - what now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Sanderson View Post
    I say no, it's the owner's fault for being careless .
    As a rule, it takes several careless persons at a time to create an accident together, and it's difficult to place fault on one of them. In the worst case, each insurance might point to the person most convenient to their respective budget.
    the world is better off without bad ideas, good ideas are better off without the world

  5. #30
    Certified! Bernie Daniel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    6,078
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default Re: My beloved mandolin was DECAPITATED last night - what now?

    Quote Originally Posted by John McCoy View Post
    First, my sympathies.

    Second, a practicality:

    All the mentions here of insurance miss something very important. Most homeowner's policies, which would include renter's (tenant's) policies and condo owner's policies, contain a personal liability clause that covers damage negligently done by the policy owner. I don't know anything about Washington insurance law, but in some states the fiddle player's policy would cover the damage he did. Depending upon applicable law and policy terms, the coverage could be for full replacement cost--up to the limit of liability clause. And there's virtually nowhere that the claim would cause the policy premium to increase. (But, FWIW, and this is important: it could lead to policy cancellation.) So, you might be able to be reimbursed by the fiddle player's policy. But he has to initiate the claim; unlike with auto insurance, you can pursue the claim with his insurance company once he's opened it, but until then you have no standing to approach them. (This last element varies by state law, but it's the general practice.)
    What could happen is that your deductible might go up on the policy.
    Bernie
    ____
    Due to current budgetary restrictions the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off -- sorry about the inconvenience.

  6. #31
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    9,883

    Default Re: My beloved mandolin was DECAPITATED last night - what now?

    Plenty of sound insurance advice already. I live by 'Not in hand, in case. Period.'

  7. #32
    Certified! Bernie Daniel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    6,078
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default Re: My beloved mandolin was DECAPITATED last night - what now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tavy View Post
    Just to say +1 on the "get it repaired": broken headstocks are common, and unless they're a complete mess of splinters easy enough to repair. Don't go with anyone who mentions epoxy though, it has no place here!


    I do agree this break will probably be repairable.

    First it could be glued up and then 1/8" milled off the entire back side of the headstock up to an inch or two past the nut into the neck (not to expose the truss) -- then this area can be filled in with fresh maple piece and which can be re-carved back to the right shape. This way you have the layer of fresh wood over the break. This was done on a mando I had and I think it ended up being as good as new.

    And hey, not to start another big "glue discussion" Tavy but I can tell you that one of the very best luthiers at Gibson told me personally that he often uses good epoxy glue to fix breaks like that. I know many luthiers do like to work with HHG and that is their professional call -- but to say that epoxy has no place here is probably incorrect. Its a reasonable way to go I think.
    Bernie
    ____
    Due to current budgetary restrictions the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off -- sorry about the inconvenience.

  8. #33
    Registered User LKN2MYIS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    1,085

    Default Re: My beloved mandolin was DECAPITATED last night - what now?

    Hate to hear stories like this.

    The only advice I can offer anyone - get PROPER INSTRUMENT insurance. I have an instrument policy with Clarion. Costs me about $20 per month, and insures me for up to 25k worth of instruments. Covers them if someone else borrowed it to use professionally and it got dropped and shattered. Covers it if I sit on it. Covers it if I dropped it down the stage. Covers all my instruments for full replacement value under any conditions EXCEPT if the damage was caused by improper humidification.

    I had a National Style "N". Placing it in a stand and one of the Waverly's (3 on a plate) bumped the end of a book case. Very slight bend to the shaft. It still functioned, but was awkward to say the least. The insurance payed for the replacement of the entire set so they would match.

    Moral: take GREAT care of your instruments, but insure them properly (not just home owners, it rarely covers properly) so that when an accident happens, you can hopefully get the repair or instrument you need to get you back up and running.

    Just my .02 for today.
    John
    Long Island, New York

  9. #34
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Austin, Texas
    Posts
    460

    Default Re: My beloved mandolin was DECAPITATED last night - what now?

    Shouldn't the fiddle player pay for this...not the insurance company?
    Yes, an insurance company should collect premiums - not pay claims. I mean, they are in business to make money, right?

    Seriously, just to reiterate others, your best bet is to make a claim with the fiddle players homeowner's insurance. You will likely have a deductible making a claim under your own policy, but that shouldn't be the case with the fiddler's liability coverage. And it doesn't have to be that adversarial with the fiddle player. The simplest thing to do is to write a letter to the fiddler stating your claim and asking him to turn the letter over to his carrier. That's pretty much the extent of the fiddle player's involvement (usually). But give him a heads up first to explain the formality of the letter. In fact, invite him over for a six pack and have him help you write it.
    Bobby Bill

  10. #35
    David Mold OldSausage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Decatur, GA
    Posts
    3,127

    Default Re: My beloved mandolin was DECAPITATED last night - what now?

    You should mount the broken off head on the wall over the sofa, so it stares forlornly at your fiddle player whenever he comes by.

  11. The following members say thank you to OldSausage for this post:


  12. #36
    ...but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    0.8 mpc from NGC 224, upstairs
    Posts
    5,795

    Default Re: My beloved mandolin was DECAPITATED last night - what now?

    Quote Originally Posted by OldSausage View Post
    You should mount the broken off head on the wall over the sofa, so it stares forlornly at your fiddle player whenever he comes by.
    Either that, or decorate it with a blood-stained feather and place it on the fiddler's bed so he finds it when he comes home...
    the world is better off without bad ideas, good ideas are better off without the world

  13. #37
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Reston, VA
    Posts
    390

    Default Re: My beloved mandolin was DECAPITATED last night - what now?

    Send it to John Hamlett. He's a genius when it comes to broken headstocks.

    http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...6-An-F2-repair
    PJ Doland
    2011 Rogue RM-100A
    1923 Gibson A (Snakehead)
    2012 Dudenbostel 1-A

  14. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to PJ Doland For This Useful Post:


  15. #38
    Registered User Tom Cherubini's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    372

    Default Re: My beloved mandolin was DECAPITATED last night - what now?

    I have a question for those posters who said that epoxy has no place in mandolin repair . . . . why not? What have you got against epoxy?
    So chi sono.

  16. #39
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Florida, USA
    Posts
    510

    Default Re: My beloved mandolin was DECAPITATED last night - what now?

    Very sorry to hear about the accident. I have left mine in the easy chair and immediately realize that I could sit on it. So I always put it back in case, and close the latches. That is another accident waiting to happen, an instrument in its case, where it should be, but with all the latches open. I agree...attempt a pro glue job first. In mando related questions, always ask yourself...what would Big Mon do?

  17. #40
    Registered User Bill Bradshaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Sheridan, Wyoming
    Posts
    178

    Default Re: My beloved mandolin was DECAPITATED last night - what now?

    My sympathy. That kind of stuff is traumatic. My Kimble got run over last year, but after the insurance dust settled, and a little extra cash, I ended up with another Kimble (an F this time). For me, when all was said and done, it worked out really well. I don't know if it had anything to do with it, by my insurance agent is at least a good acquaintance, and he seemed to "go to bat for me". I ended up paying the deductible on my home owners policy, so got a rider for the new one. Nothing new to add about repairs. I hope you've found a way to not be mad at your friend. They make lots of mandolins, but friends can be harder to come by. Good luck, Bill

  18. #41
    Registered User Chip Booth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Hailey, ID
    Posts
    2,089

    Default Re: My beloved mandolin was DECAPITATED last night - what now?

    My experience with a neck replacement is very limited but in my experience as long as the body does not have to be taken apart I wouldn't worry too much about the tone changing dramatically.

    As for the difference in the Absaroka model vs the Yellowstone A, in the beginning I think it was a essentially just a renaming of the models. However at some point it seemed to me that Weber underwent changes in their construction techniques, and I think that that later models are a real improvement. I have never played an Absaroka that holds up to the current product, at least for my taste in tone. If you discover that insurance will replace your instrument you might consider it.

  19. #42
    Resonate globally Pete Jenner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Blackheath, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    2,520
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: My beloved mandolin was DECAPITATED last night - what now?

    Quote Originally Posted by PJ Doland View Post
    Send it to John Hamlett. He's a genius when it comes to broken headstocks.

    http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...6-An-F2-repair
    I'd certainly be talking to him. He's the man when it comes to that sort of repair.
    The more I learn, the less I know.

    Peter Jenner
    Blackheathen

    Facebook

  20. #43
    Registered User belbein's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    1,712

    Default Re: My beloved mandolin was DECAPITATED last night - what now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bertram Henze View Post
    Well, since you said it

    I took this thread as an admonition to myself to at last order that pub prop I have seen fellow musicians use so often.

    I don't get it. I'm curious how the beer helps protect your instrument.

  21. #44
    Registered User belbein's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    1,712

    Default Re: My beloved mandolin was DECAPITATED last night - what now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Strings8 View Post
    I have a question for those posters who said that epoxy has no place in mandolin repair . . . . why not? What have you got against epoxy?
    There is a prejudice against epoxy, which I also find strange. The best answer I know is that if you make a mistake, you can't take it apart. Which is true enough.

    There is also something about epoxy's structural strength and end fibers, which was new info to me. That's a very good point, too.

    Other complaints: it's messy, it's toxic, it has a short working time ... just seem silly to me. Especially when compared to Holy Hide Glue. But it's true that if you aren't really confident, epoxy is not for you.

    On the other hand, for a structural break? Whoever recommended epoxy and inlaid reinforcement--that's what I'd do.

  22. #45
    Resonate globally Pete Jenner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Blackheath, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    2,520
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: My beloved mandolin was DECAPITATED last night - what now?

    Quote Originally Posted by belbein View Post
    There is a prejudice against epoxy, which I also find strange. The best answer I know is that if you make a mistake, you can't take it apart. Which is true enough.

    There is also something about epoxy's structural strength and end fibers, which was new info to me. That's a very good point, too.

    Other complaints: it's messy, it's toxic, it has a short working time ... just seem silly to me. Especially when compared to Holy Hide Glue. But it's true that if you aren't really confident, epoxy is not for you.

    On the other hand, for a structural break? Whoever recommended epoxy and inlaid reinforcement--that's what I'd do.
    Brad, I don't mean any offence by this but if I had to weigh the expert opinion of a Lawyer against the expert opinion of an experienced Luthier with regard to the repair of a broken mandolin headstock, notwithstanding the aforementioned lawyer's not inconsequential experience building instruments, the scales would undoubtedly fall heavily on the side of the...

    HHG everytime - epoxy is a poxy proxy. ...unless of course you intend it for gluing in the CF splines.
    Last edited by Pete Jenner; Feb-18-2013 at 12:35pm.
    The more I learn, the less I know.

    Peter Jenner
    Blackheathen

    Facebook

  23. #46
    Registered User Tavy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Tavistock UK
    Posts
    2,503

    Default Re: My beloved mandolin was DECAPITATED last night - what now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Strings8 View Post
    I have a question for those posters who said that epoxy has no place in mandolin repair . . . . why not? What have you got against epoxy?
    I didn't say no place in mandolin repair, I said no place (probably) for that repair - or to put it another way, use the correct glue for the job. If a neck break is a clean break, then one of the wood glues - whether HHG or (heretic suggestion coming up) titebond original is the way to go. On the other hand... if you needed to reglue a carbon fibre insert or something, then epoxy every time.

    Only possible exception to the rule, is if it's a nasty jagged break that won't go back together cleanly - epoxy can do what no wood glue can do and span gaps. But... even in that case, I think I'd rather insert new wood than trust to epoxy... but that may just be me. Either way, a photo of the damage is worth a thousand words... and I'm sure either Weber or one of the other regular luthiers here could do a first rate job.

  24. #47
    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    9,183

    Default Re: My beloved mandolin was DECAPITATED last night - what now?

    If it turns out Weber can't or won't do the repair, I'd take it to Gary Wagner or Paul Stroh here in Seattle.
    Emando.com: More than you wanted to know about electric mandolins.

    Notorious: My Celtic CD--listen & buy!

    Donaldson Rigel Thormahlen Andersen Old Wave Bacorn Yanuziello Fender National Gibson Franke Fuchs Aceto Three Hungry Pit Bulls

  25. #48
    Infrequently Smelt Gregory Tidwell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    225

    Default Re: My beloved mandolin was DECAPITATED last night - what now?

    I am an insurance lawyer, and WA is one of the states I practice in; my main state, actually. If the owner has a policy of insurance that covers this instrument, that is the easiest way to go. That is what is called first party insurance. The insurance company will take care of the damages, subject to a deductible, and if it thinks that there is a valid third party claim against the fiddle player, will seek what is called "subrogation" from the fiddle player. If the fiddle player has third party insurance (commonly called "liability coverage," for example on a homeowner's policy) then they may seek subrogation from that insurer instead of from the fiddle player directly.

    In this case the owner put the instrument in a place where he knew or should have known someone would sit down, so at the very least he is likely comparatively at fault (WA is a "pure comparative fault" state, which means that each party is only responsible for its own share of negligence without any bars to recovery. Thus in WA if the OP is 90% at fault, he can still collect the 10% of fault from the fiddle player. Contrast Oregon which has what is called a "modified comparative negligence fault" scheme, which means that if the OP were 50% or more at fault, he could not collect. Thus in OR if the OP were 49% at fault he could collect 51% of the damages from the fiddle player, but if the OP were 51% at fault he would be barred from collecting anything. Compare further some east coast states which are "contributory negligence" states, which means that if the OP had any percentage of fault, he could not collect at all. Thus is some states if the OP is 1% at fault he is legally barred from getting any recovery, even though the other guy is 99% responsible for the damages). This would lessen the recovery potential from the at-fault party, and may in fact make it unworth the effot it would take to get recovery. In that case they can just let sleeping dogs lie, pay the claim and be done with it. To summarize: The OP could make an insurance claim for the whole value, because he has a contract with the insurance company to pay first party damages, but the most the insurance company could seek from the fiddle player is the share of his negligence. So if the Weber is worth $1,200 and each party is 50% at fault, the insurer pays the OP $1,200 less any deductible, and has a right against the fiddle player for $600. If the fiddle player has HO coverage, his insurer pays $600 and everything is done.

    Alternatively the OP may seek compensation directly from the fiddle player in a third party claim, subject to the rules above. In my practice people follow up with first party insurers much more frequently as that is often the path of least resistance. But very often if there is a high deductible, or if the OP is pissed at the fiddle player, that is when the third party claims start. So if the OP has a $1K deductible on a $1,200 instrument, making a first party insurance claim would probably not be worth it. Alternatively if the OP has an instrument rider on his homeowner's policy which provides full replacement coverage without deductible - as I do - then a first party claim is probably easier.

    In WA if a first party claim is sought, and if the OP's insurer sought subrogation and got some money back, it would have to pay the OP's deductible back from that recovery. However with the above facts if all the insurer paid was $200 (because of a $1K deductible on an instrument with a replacement value of $1,200), that is the most it would legally be allowed to subrogate from the fiddle player. Under those facts, there is not much hope of recovery for the OP absent a third party claim directly against the fiddle player.

    this can be further complicated by the type of coverage purchased. If the OP only purchased actual cash value coverage, he may be out of luck if the ACV is less than the deductible. On the other hand if a replacement value policy was purchased, there may be a potential for some payment in a first party claim.
    Last edited by Gregory Tidwell; Feb-18-2013 at 1:29pm. Reason: tweaking
    Objects in mirror are closer then they appear.

    - Buick, 1986

  26. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Gregory Tidwell For This Useful Post:


  27. #49
    Registered User Rodney Riley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Effingham IL
    Posts
    920

    Default Re: My beloved mandolin was DECAPITATED last night - what now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gregory Tidwell View Post
    I am an insurance lawyer,... etc. etc. and.... replacement value policy was purchased, there may be a potential for some payment in a first party claim.
    Wow.... Uhhhhh.... Hmmmm.... Think I'll call my insurance man.....

  28. #50
    ...but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    0.8 mpc from NGC 224, upstairs
    Posts
    5,795

    Default Re: My beloved mandolin was DECAPITATED last night - what now?

    Quote Originally Posted by belbein View Post
    I don't get it. I'm curious how the beer helps protect your instrument.
    the world is better off without bad ideas, good ideas are better off without the world

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •