1912 F2 fretboard

[mrmando]

Doing some research on this F2. SN is 17004. First digit of the FON is hard to make out, but it could be 2009. Spann puts this in 1912; previous lists would have it in 1914 based on the serial number.

What makes me hesitate is that it doesn't have a typical 1912 F-style fretboard. Looks like a later board. The mandolin obviously has had a little work done (tuners, bridge and case are not original), but do we have enough evidence here to indicate that the fretboard is definitely a replacement? What do you guys think?



It's possible that the FON is 3009, which would put the manufacture date in 1914. That would account for the board, but not for the serial number! (It wouldn't make sense to have a ship date that's earlier than the manufacture date.)

More photos here: http://s568.beta.photobucket.com/use...ry/Gibson%20F2

[Mike Black]

Are you sure the FON doesn't say 2069? The Spann guide doesn't show an F2 batch with the 3009 FON.

[Mike Black]

If you look in the archive, that board looks exactly like all the other black top F2 from 1912.

[mrmando]

Mike:

1) Spann lists all the FONs he has collected, but there are plenty of FONs he doesn't list. I am fairly confident that the FON in question ends in 009, but I can see only the top of the first digit and couldn't swear whether it's a 2 or 3. Spann doesn't list 2009 or 3009 at all. Neither does the Archive. That just means this instrument is from a previously unreported batch. Spann takes great pains to point out that his FON list is not comprehensive.

2) No, it is not a typical 1912 board and doesn't match any other photo of an F-style board from 1911 or 1912 in the Archive. Look closer. If you know what's different about boards from this period, you'll spot what I'm talking about right away. If you don't know why this is not a typical 1912 board, then you're probably not in a position to answer my question.

[Jim Garber]

2) No, it is not a typical 1912 board and doesn't match any other photo of an F-style board from 1911 or 1912 in the Archive. Look closer. If you know what's different about boards from this period, you'll spot what I'm talking about right away. If you don't know why this is not a typical 1912 board, then you're probably not in a position to answer my question.

Martin: are you referring to the treatment at the Florida end of the board with the little z-notch (some could call it the Tallahassee notch, I suppose). Like this one from the archives dated 1912.

[Mike Black]

Mike:

2) No, it is not a typical 1912 board and doesn't match any other photo of an F-style board from 1911 or 1912 in the Archive. Look closer. If you know what's different about boards from this period, you'll spot what I'm talking about right away. If you don't know why this is not a typical 1912 board, then you're probably not in a position to answer my question.

Yes, you are correct, your board does not look like the other boards. My mistake. Too bad there are only a couple from that time pictures in the archive. A couple look like they also have replaced boards. It does look like the shape of a later style extension. But that third fret?

[sprucetop1]

I'm no expert, but I think that is a replaced or modified fingerboard. As Jim says, they have a Z-notch at the 20th fret just at the start of the fingerboard extension. Here's a pic. of mine....ser.no 16661 and FON 2009. It was imported new into the UK before WW1 and has an extra UK dealer label from that era. The non-orig. peghead binding and flowerpot were added circa 1972 (before I bought it in 1975) by an expert luthier here in the UK. The adjustable bridge is also non-orig. but the orig. fixed bridge is in the original case pocket. The finger rest is missing.
In a way, it was unfortunate that the peghead binding and flowerpot were added to an orig. F2, but it is such a perfect job that I've almost grown to accept and like it. Sad to say, the luthier that did it (a bit of a genius in his day) is no longer with us.......

[sprucetop1]

...and here's a close up of the bound peghead.....what do you guys think?

[mrmando]

It does look like the shape of a later style extension. But that third fret?

What's wrong with the third fret, specifically? The board has a lot of wear, including fretwear up to the 10th fret on the A and E courses. If the board was replaced, it happened a long time ago.

What I want to know is whether anyone has seen an F-style Gibson from this period with an original board that doesn't have the notch. I have seen enough of these to be of the conviction that the notch was typical. But I am not sure whether it was de rigueur.

[allenhopkins]

Almost all the F-2 fretboards I Googled do not have a pearl dot at the 3rd fret. The one that does specifically mentions "replaced fretboard."

We're all aware that Gibson didn't always enforce uniformity, that exceptions occur to the "standard specs." So, not convinced this is a "smoking gun." But along with the differently-shaped extension, it does suggest a replacement.

[Gary Hedrick]

There are '13, '14 and a '15 F2,s at Gruhn's......none of them have a dot at the third fret.

[ColdBeerGoCubs]

This one's also got a 3rd fret marker in the binding.

[mrmando]

Brilliant! I never thought about the 3rd fret marker.

Mike, sorry if I seemed a little surly in my reply in #4. I just re-read it and I think I could have been more polite.

Do we think it's a Gibson board?

This belonged to a friend of mine who passed away. Very interesting collection he had. More news later.

[danb]

Looks like a later gibson board to me

[mrmando]

Thanks, Dan. Yeah, it looks a lot like this one:
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/gibson/serial/89912

Judging from the photos in the Archive, it would seem that 3rd-fret inlays don't show up until about 1929. Is that consistent with your experience?

[Bernie Daniel]

The third fret marker seems to have come and gone several times in Gibson history. So there you have it then -- a fretboard put on by the factory after 1929? Also the thread established a heretofore unreported FON 2009. Looks like a good day's work.

[Bernie Daniel]

Originally posted by sprucetop1
...and here's a close up of the bound peghead.....what do you guys think?

I think it looks great. I had often contemplated doing that to one of the F-2's I owned but never quite got up the nerve!

[sprucetop1]

Bernie.....glad you like the peghead mod. Given the choice, I like to stick with originality, but this one was so well executed (and the price was right back in '75), I pulled the trigger. There's no doubt at all about the FON 2009. It's as clear as the day it was stamped.

[danb]

Hmm, looks like the first one I have with a 3rd fret inlay is 86126, but that's at a fairly quick glance!

http://www.mandolinarchive.com/gibson/serial/86126

[mrmando]

Also the thread established a heretofore unreported FON 2009. Looks like a good day's work.

Ah, indeed ... mine and sprucetop1's both have the same FON, and they both have replaced boards ...

[sprucetop1]

Mrmando......no, I think my F2 has its original fingerboard.

[mrmando]

Indeed ... grr ... where's my coffee?