X - Bracing

**dgrimm** · Jan-10-2005, 4:24pm

Does anyone have a web site were I can get X - Brace placement on a Mando. I want to build a "A" Style and want to use X Bracing. I have the Siminoff Book

Thanks

**Rob Grant** · Jan-10-2005, 5:09pm

Hope Peter Coombe doesn't mind, but here's a direct quote I still religiously refer to when using X bracing. He explains it much better then I could. The comment specifically refers to oval hole construction. He may have changed his ideas since then, but it still works for me. I believe it originally appeared in the CoMando forum 3/13/01...

"Forget Siminoff's book if you are building an oval hole. #The graduations and bracing are different. #The positioning of the X is to a large extent dictated by the soundhole, but make sure that the arms of the braces go directly under the bridge posts, and the X should cross at least 1" in front of the bridge position. #I use Red Spruce for braces, 7mm wide and about 10mm high at the highest point, which is at the crossing of the X. The back part of the X braces are tapered like a wedge out to nothing just in front of the thinnest part of the top. #The front part of the X are scalloped and also taper out to nothing just shy of the linings. #I position the braces according to Chladni patterns, but if you position them as I described with the front arms of the X as close to the soundhole as possible you should be OK. #Do not spread out the braces too much since this will stiffen the top too much. #The final brace dimensions will depend on the stiffness of the top and also the stiffnesss of the Red Spruce used for the braces. #I developed this bracing pattern myself, but if I look inside my Gilchrist, the bracing looks very familiar so I seem to have re-invented the wheel. #If you can, grab an X braced Gilchrist (or one of my mandos), pull out the endpin, hold it up to the light and peer through the endpin hole. #All will be revealed."

**Ken** · Jan-10-2005, 6:49pm

Once again I luck out, and once again the Cafe comes thru for me. I'm just at the point of bracing my new oval hole mandola and am using an x brace for the first time. Was internally debating the best position for the x and then this thread comes up. Thanks guys.

Ken.

**peter.coombe** · Jan-11-2005, 3:45pm

I have put a couple of pictures of my X brace on my web page just for these types of questions. #Try this.

**Ken** · Jan-11-2005, 7:04pm

Thanks Peter,
The picture sure helps. I was laying out the X tonight after work, I think I'm in the same ball park but you really do get those braces up by the sound hole.
Ken

**STG** · Jan-11-2005, 8:43pm

This is a subject I'm curious about. Does a flat top use X bracing or somthing else? I'm building one with a round hole and now I wonder???

**Rob Grant** · Jan-12-2005, 1:48am

STG,

You probably could use an X brace, but the last flattop I built used bracing that was based on the early Flatiron flattop range. I had one brace directly under the bridge and another above the sound hole directly under the end of the fretboard. It was a "hot" little mandolin. A local violin player bought it off me a few weeks before he backed up Christina Olsen at a local gig. Here's an attached photo of a rough plan I made...

**oldwave maker** · Jan-12-2005, 9:08am

Another way to skin that cat:

**oldwave maker** · Jan-12-2005, 9:11am

trying not to add too much more brace mass than the original transverse brace on this standard 1918 sunkentop A4

**dgrimm** · Jan-12-2005, 11:47am

Does anyone have pictures of a "F" hole "A" style with x bracing ?

**PaulD** · Jan-12-2005, 1:34pm

As Rob remarked, the old Flatiron pancake had transverse or ladder bracing. The Gibson "Alright" was a very similar mandolin but had braces running parallel to the grain, at least in the one I've seen. They reminded me of tone bars except they were pretty well parallel to each other and I don't recall that they were sized differently on the bass and treble sides. I have pics at home (the back was off the mando), I'll try to remember to post them in a new thread, since this one is title "X-Bracing" and the pics are just the opposite.

Paul Doubek

**peter.coombe** · Jan-12-2005, 3:50pm

Unfortunately I don't have any pictures of my F hole mandolin bracing, but I now have a digital camera and will put a picture of the bracing on my web page the next one I make (don't hold you breath). My F hole bracing is significantly different from the oval hole mando bracing, and probably different from how everyone else does it, but it works.

**Daniel Nestlerode** · Jan-12-2005, 4:06pm

Originally Posted by (STG @ Jan. 11 2005, 18:43)

Does a flat top use X bracing or somthing else? I'm building one with a round hole and now I wonder???

Depends on the builder (natch). Weber uses X braces on everything unless you ask them not to.

Daniel

**acousticphd** · Jan-12-2005, 5:43pm

Originally Posted by

Does anyone have pictures of a "F" hole "A" style with x bracing ?

No pictures unfortunately; the builders will have to chime in. The Sawchyn flatiron-style mandolin and mandola are X-braced, so perhaps he is one source for suggestions on bracing pancake-style instruments. My ~1995 Old Wave A-style, f-hole mando is X-braced. I don't know if that was common or unusual for the Bussmann A-f instruments at that time.

Comparing pictures of the Coombe and Old Wave A-ovals; they appear very similar in body shape, soundhole position, and bridge position near the widest part of the top. But the bracing is different, with the Old Wave's X being close to 90 degrees, and the bridge would be positioned nearly at the cross. Obviously, there IS more than one way to skin a cat - and make it sound really good.

To the builders, how and why is the X-bracing different on an f-hole style?

**peter.coombe** · Jan-12-2005, 6:31pm

Well it is different in my mandolins because it sounds better if I do it different. You don't have to do it different. The oval hole has the soundhole in the way, so that limits what you can do. I cross my X further foreward in the F hole mandolins. I used to brace my F hole mandolins the same as the oval hole, but then tried moving the crossover foreward as an experiment. The first one sounded so much better, I stuck with it. Is a bit of a cross between tone bars and an X.