Celtic set-up/tackle survey

[Strathspey]

Hello . . . just a little set-up survey . . . I'm curious what other "celtic-style" player on the Board are using. What kind of strings, picks, and mandolin(s) do you use? How would you characterize your action height of preference (i.e. low, medium, high or "a manly height" as BM says. )? Do you use any mando-gadgets?

My current set-up is:

Mandolin: A-5, blonde and otherwise unadorned, but more than decent, made in 2003 by a local fellow. I used to have a mid-mo, but sold it - for now my MAS is in remission well . . . the same dude is making me a zouk.

Action: As low as I can get it without buzzing

Strings: D'Addario J-75's (the Ronnie McCoury set) - I have used Flat Tops and GHS Bobby Osbornes and like both but like the J-75’s the best for now.

Pick of Choice: Saga-era David Grisman (I have a buddy that used to be a dealer and he gave me a wack of them).

Tail-piece: I just use what the mando came with . . . a Gibson-type, but dream of replacing it . . . maybe next Christmas?

Gadgets: Tone Gard and an arm rest (03 and 04 Christmas gifts). You know, I would never play without them - I have had the Tone Gard for over a year and when I take it off it just isn't the same. My friends tell me that traditional players don't use such things . . . maybe when I'm good I will stop (neither is likely to happen).

What factors have influenced your set-up choices? I, for one, once thought that I had the desire and capability to play multiple styles of music and tried to set-up my mando accordingly. Turns out that I only really want to play jigs and reels . . . and strathspeys of course!

Happy New Year!

Matt

[jmcgann]

1994 Zeidler F style
D'Adarrio J74 ("Grisman set")
medium action
Dunlop Tortex 1.5 mm- use the "dumb end" rather than the point
Tone Gard

I play Irish, bluegrass, and jazz, and whatever else I can get away with. Obviously a very "non-trad" choice for Irish music. So sue me.
This is my only acoustic mando (also play a Sobell OM and Zeidler electric mando).

[Mike Herlihy]

My tackle is Breedlove Quartz KO, IMHO, oval hold sounds drier and less overtones to my ear. Better for Irish sound. The KO is a wonderful instrument, great build and great value for the price.

Setup is J74s, would use Thomasticks but had an allergic reaction to the strings. Very bad dermatitis.

Weber mandolin picks. I got one with my Weber Sweet Pea and fell in love with it. You can bulk order them from Weber.

[yoods]

"Dunlop Tortex 1.5 mm- use the "dumb end" rather than the point"

John,

Why the "dumb end rather than the point"?

What does that give you that using the point does not?

P.S, like your playing with FF

[danb]

Lebeda F5 Premium Plus (loudest, nearly including my national reso, lovely bass, great session axe)
or
1923 Gibson A (beautiful recording tone, not quite as loud as lebeda)
or
1903 Gibson F2 (very snappy tripletty tone, sounds good in ensembles)
or
1924 Loar F5 (borrowed briefly, unspeakably wonderful)

I use j74s as well..

Action: medium/medium-high

Clayton Ultem .72mm rounded triangle picks.. I use the points, eventually replace 'em when they wear out. They are great like *a lot* of this shape and thickness are, but.. they don't chip. At all. Play as long as you want on 'em, and they never get little chips that catch on the strings. Every other type I've tried does.. so these are my babies. I try other stuff often, but I've been steady on these picks for 6 years or so

I have a tone gard. Used it for a couple tries, and as I normally play sitting down with the back of the mando away from my gut, it didn't make an awful lot of difference. Anybody want to buy one?

[mad dawg]

Mandolin: Freshwater walnut large-body 10-string.

Action: low, which seems to make it easier for me to do left-hand ornamentation.

Strings: since no one makes 10-string sets (that I know of), I purchase loose strings locally. I am currently playing some J74-equivalents, but want to experiment with other types of strings (TI, silk, synthetic core, etc.) since my lowest course doesn't like to stay in tune very long.

Picks: I alternate between Pro-Plec rounded triangles and Golden Gates.

Add-ons: an Allen nickel tailpiece (which is the only cast 10-string tailpiece that I found readily available via the internet), and a King Brown ebony armrest.

Music: mostly Irish and Scottish.

[GBG]

1. Teens Gibson A1
2. Krishot F-5

I normally use Dunlop 207 picks and sometimes a Dunlop Ultex 1.14 with the Gibson, J74 strings and a medium+ action.

[rmcintos]

My tackle:

Epiphone MM20 PacRim mando
Trinity College Octave Mandolin

Both are setup with low low action. For picks, on the mando I like to use Clayton 1mm rounded triangles and on the octave mando I like to use "First Act/Wal-Mart" cheapie 72 mm guitar picks. For strings, on the mando I like to use JS-74. The JS-74s don't seem to wear out as fast as regular J-74s (at least under my fingers). On the octave, I'm still experimenting with strings, but at the moment, I'm partial to ghs phosphor bronzes..They seem to have a nice honk to them.

The biggest factor influencing my setup...I like the low action because it is easier on my hands and it makes it easier for me to slur notes. This is important for me right now because I'm at the point in my playing where slurring notes is starting to become a natural thing, and the easier it comes the better it is..if that make sense..

The other is cost..because I'm on a budget, strings and picks that are cheap catch my eye. No thomastiks for me for awhile..

[mandroid]

Tackle,? a Rugby sub theme? , Hurling too is different activity in australia,I hear, though lots of beer is consumed in all .

[Dagger Gordon]

Main mandolin is a 20 year old 10 string Sobell. Also use a Sobell 8 string cittern. Both have magnetic pick-ups installed by Mike Vanden. He later sold the design to Fishman, who call them Rare Earth.

For the mandolin, I change strings maybe twice a year. Usually use D'addario lights. Previous set I had on were Elixirs. I liked them at first, but they went very dead on me quite suddenly. Thought it was the pick-up at first actually. I virtually never break mandolin strings. I'm unlikely to use Elixirs again - D'Addarios seem to last me longer.

For the cittern, I buy individual Phosphor Bronze strings or buy light guage guitar sets. I tune ADAE; strings are 42,30 ,21 and 11 or as close as I can get. Can't always be too fussy.
I play a lot of rhythm on it and break the middle strings more than I'd like. Where possible I tie knots in them beyond the bridge or the nut and use them again. Quicker and cheaper than hunting for a new one, doesn't seem to affect the sound.
Don't change the strings much apart from that.

I also play a short open backed Windsor tenor banjo, similar strings to the cittern. I amplify it by tying a cheap Sanyo microphone to the inside with elastic bands, so the head is below the bridge. Works surprisingly well - cheapest system I've seen by far!

I also sometimes play a 1912 A model Gibson mandolin, and we have 3 guitars around the house, plus a Buchanan mandola which is my sons.

I always use Swedish made Sharkfin plectrums (the white ones) as do virtually all my friends.

I don't really vary that much. I've had the same banjo for over 30 years. Having said that, I would consider selling my Gibson which I don't play too often and maybe try one of these Czeck mandolins which I think look good.

Happy pickin'.

[Steve L]

Mandolins: a Breedlove KF with GHS phos bronze medium lights
A Mid Missouri M2 with Thomastik mediums
an old "Oliver Ditson" Martin flat top with ghs
light phos bronze

Just got the Breedlove in July and it's just starting to open up. I love the feel and tone of both very different instuments. The Mid Mo sounds fabulous around the house,playing with a couple of friends, or recording. I got the Breedlove to have an arch top f hole to project a bit more in sessions. The Martin was given to me by a friend who found it in an attic. It was a bit of a wreck, but after some repairs it plays and sounds far, far better than it looks.

CBOM Trinity College zouk in octaves with ghs light Irish
bouzouki strings

Flatiron 3M octave/zouk unison with ghs octave mando strings

Lark In the Morning cedar top octave mando with ghs
octave mando strings (I enjoy this thing, but would
not recommend them...you get what you pay for).

I go through experiments with picks, but always seem to come back to the Fender 358 pointy teardrops...heavy for mando and meduim for zouks.

[otterly2k]

I'm playing a Trillium Octave Mandolin which I string a little heavier than recommended, especially on the high end.
I'm still experimenting, but at the moment I have it strung (phosphor bronze, indiv. strings) all in 4's...44,34,24,14.
I'd say the action is medium...as I like to go back and forth between melodic and rhythmic playing, and do a lot of crosspicking.

I play in GDAE or ADAE like Dagger. Haven't wrapped my brain around GDAD yet.

I'm not currently playing with any pickup, and I don't have a clear pick preference yet...other than it must be medium-heavy or heavier. I use a Shubb capo sometimes, and an Intellitouch tuner when in a noisy session.

re: tailpiece...I have the tailpiece that came on the Trillium which has such a lovely design that I am loathe to replace it with a cast one for aesthetic reasons. However, given that I am using non-standard string gauges, I may go to an Allen so that I can use both loop and ball-end strings without having to cut out the annoying little brass cylinders (and end up wasting strings in the process!).

As for other instruments...
I play a 1980 Martin D-28, a Freshwater zouk (for sale in the classifieds, btw), and have just received a tenor banjo (30's era, made by Epiphone, but a different name on it) that I"m getting ready to string up and take for a spin. On a recent trip to Ireland, my mom bought a bodhran for me, but I don't know how to play it yet.

KE

[mad dawg]

Hey Dagger: how do you buy your D'addario lights for your 10-string; as loose strings, or as a set of eight plus loose strings for your lower course? Also, if I recall correctly, you tune your lowest course to D, but I don't think I ever asked you what guage and type of string you use for your lowest course.

thx,
jim

[layers5]

I'm playing a 1920 Vega cylinder-back mahogany mandolin which I recently found on Ebay. It has a surprisingly sweet and punchy tone. I have GHS light phosphor-bronze strings on it and use a 1 mm. (blue) Tortex pick; on guitar I use the pointy point while on mandolin I use one of the blunt points.

My main instruments are fiddle and guitar; I started on mandolin last year with a used Michael Kelly F-5 copy. Playing in sessions I've found that playing mandolin is twice as much work as fiddle! You really have to dig in in order to project.

Larry

[jmcgann]

yoods :
"Why the "dumb end rather than the point"? #
What does that give you that using the point does not?"

Take your pick, turn it around and listen. To me, the point doesn't lay enough mass on the string to get the body to resonate as well as the "dumb end" does. For me, it's about tone. I'm coming from the Rice/Barenberg/Grisman/Bush old school, I learned to "draw tone" from the instrument from hanging out with Russ Barenberg, and I just prefer that sound.

CAUTION-FLAME BAIT: I find that most Irish players use medium to light picks, it is almost a characteristic of the sound, but I don't like it. I think it gives the illusion of voulme, but it's the LOW frequencies, the fundamentals, that give an instrument projection. I don't care for the sound of "pick click", i want the body of the instrument to resonate like a Steinway piano.

That doesn't mean I don't dig the PLAYING of people who use lighter picks, I just wouldn't want to play with that kind of sound. This makes me a target for critics who say I sound "hamfisted" (Geoff Wallis) and "pedestrian" (Phillipe Varlet).

'cos it ain't traditional.

[danb]

John's statement on picks is well taken. A lot of the players of Irish tenor banjo use super-light picks (they feel like paper to me!) which helps with success rates on picked triplets.

I agree with John that it produces unsatisfactory tone.. in general I'm impressed with the fluidity of the Irish TB players who dabble with mandolins, but I'm not fond of the overall effect or tone.

I feel that the bulk of players with super-light picks don't have much in the way of dynamics, which is to say that the notes are all roughly the same volume. I'm kind of a middle-of-the-road with a .72mm. The big thick bluegrass picks sort of start at the 100mm range and go up. I've got a pile of the big boys (Golden Gate, 1.22 Ultems, tortoiseshell of approx 110mm, etc). I have been trying them a lot recently, especially since I borrowed that Loar, as they are a big part of the archetype bluegrass tone.

Taking it to the other extreme, I've often been accused of beating mandolins ruthlessly, to the extent that most sessions I go to have at least one guy commenting on how loud the mandolin is

That said, I keep coming back to the Clayton 72s. I hit the string pretty close to perpendicular most of the time, and dig pretty deeply with that point. Rotating the pick so that you point to 1 or 2 o'clock (if the strings are 6 o'clock to 12 o'clock) starts steering you in the direction of that heavier pick sound.

Picking closer to the bridge with a heavy pick gives you that Stanley bros sound.. picking really really hard midway over the extension gives you pretty credible Monroe tone..

Anyway, to continue to play devil's advocate here, I am actually a fan of getting the midrange and the high end too, you get nice articulation and "Snap" to your picked triplets. My 3-point F2 is almost completely missing that low end, so a t-shell or golden gate pick transforms it.

If I use too heavy of a pick, I feel I have to do only left hand decorations, as triplets loose their definition. Too light a pick, and that's all you can do.. you can't get the string moving with enough intial force to get a hammer-on or a pull-off to work.

[jmcgann]

Dan- whatever you are doing, it works- your playing is excellent! These choices are the ultimate YMMV!

[RolandTumble]

191x (??) Vega two-point flatback mandolin (maple back, sides & neck)
Low action
Thomastik Medium strings
Dunlop Ultex 1.14 -- mostly the point, but I've been "trying out" the blunt end lately
1" nylon strap
Viola shoulder rest across the back as a "Tone Guard"

I'm pretty firm about my pick & string choices, though the 1.00 pick isn't too bad, either. Ultex is more flexible at a given weight than some other materials, it's very smooth and, as near as I can tell, shatterproof. Also "musical" on its own--there's almost a ring to it if dropped on a table (kind of like the sound of a real silver quarter (coin), as opposed to those sandwiched jobs). I used to use the Dunlop Tortex greens (.82??), which were okay, 'til Mandohack packed an Ultex in with the first set of Thomastiks I bought from him...took a day or two to get used to it & never looked back).

I'm completely strap-dependent.... 'Round back & over the left shoulder, none of that Monroe-style one shoulder action.

I'd like to get my '81 Flatiron 2M back into service, too--it needs some bridge work to get the right intonation with Thomastiks. All other specs the same.

Occasional forays on a Trinity College mandola (no SN, date unknown, but from the MIJ period before the hiatus & Korean resumption). Also Thomastik Mediums, but I've been considering putting on a set of lights & tuning up a whole step (DAEB). I use the 1.00 pick with it when I can find it (I've only got one that weight...), but the 1.14 works okay. Oh, and the strap for this one is inkle-woven cotton, that I made myself.

[Dagger Gordon]

Jim,

I buy ordinary sets and use guitar sixth strings for the bottom D. I've always got some left over if I've used a guitar set for the cittern, as I don't use sixth strings for that.

It might seem a bit heavy, but I've found that anything much lighter just flaps around. I don't play much melody down there, but I do chord on it.

Cheers,

[danb]

John, Sure enough. I've been working on coppping some of your left hand licks, now I know where to start with picks to get the hang of it

Completely true, it's not exactly the same for any two people, and none of this is cast in stone anywhere.

[Mike Crocker]

*Light guage strings, usually D'Addario.
*Flat-top Moon mandolin (spruce top, maple back & sides) with Shaller tuners, Weber tailpiece, selfmade cocobolo solid bridge with bone cap, extra radius on the binding for arm comfort.
*Medium (0.73mm) pick, usually Dunlop Ultex, sometimes Dunlop Tortoise, rounded point which I dress myself.
*Prefer a shotgun condenser mic but will use whatever is going.
*Wide Levys strap cause I don't like a sore shoulder.
*Low action.

Also use a guitar shaped bouzouki, 6, 12, bass, and baritone guitars.

Mooh.

[Martin Jonas]

I have used any of these setups for Irish and Scottish tunes:

1) Majestic 1920s flattop, d'Addario J62 light strings, Wegen 1.0mm bluegrass guitar pick.

2) Antique Italian bowlback, Lenzner bronze medium strings, Jim Dunlop 0.88mm nylon pick.

3) 1989 Washburn M3SW, D'Addario J74 strings, Cumberland Acoustic ebony bridge, Wegen 1.0mm bluegrass guitar pick.

4) Troubadour bouzouki, replacement ebony/bone bridge, Newtone medium strings, Jim Dunlop nylon picks (1.0mm most of the time, 0.73mm for strummed rhythm).

Apart from the bowlback, all of these are distinctly non-prestigious instruments, but they have decent tone and can shine in the right setting. I should probably concentrate on one (not being a good enough player to do all four instruments justice), but I like the variety in tone they give me; they also make it easy to switch genre. Most of what I play is Irish or Scottish, but I also dabble a bit in early music, bluegrass, German and Italian tunes and am currently playing around with some Brazilian choro tunes. I play sitting down, and never use a strap. Action is pretty exactly 2mm at the 12th fret for all four instruments.

Martin

[zoukboy]

1998 Stephen Owsley Smith "Acme" prototype (spruce and koa with pau ferro fretboard. Scale is a smidgen longer than an F5 - about 14.25")

D'Addario strings .011 .015 .024 .038 - I buy them singly as these gauges don't conform to any set that I know of. They're like a set of J74s with lighter D and G strings to ease the tension a bit from the SOS's longer scale.

Clayton Ultem "Tortoise" .072 picks - similar to what DB uses but the smaller size with only one "point." I use the point as the "dumb" ends sound too dull to me and it takes some of the snap out of triplets the way I play them, but, yes, I agree totally with DB and JM - YMMV.

Action is medium/medium high

Also have:
2 - SOS 10 string zouks (one for sale in the classifieds section - ad #11713)
1 - SOS 8 string flattop zouk on loan (my main axe for the past year and a half)

[zoukboy]

Oh, one other thing about those Clayton Ultem picks, they don't chip, as DB said, but they do have an annoying tendency to develop small cracks along the edge. I usually toss them when they reach this point but if you don't the tip will sometimes break off, the pick splitting at the point of the crack.

That ever happen with yours Dan?

Roger Landes

[SiFi]

Hi all!

My current mandolin is a Davy Stuart LT8: A-shape, oval soundhole, mahogany/spruce with maple trim. Very sweet. Medium action, Gotoh tuners.

Strings are D'Addario J62 (.010 - .014 - .024 - .034).

My pick of choice is a Jim Dunlop Big Stubby 3.0mm. Just love 'em.

It has a Fishman pickup built into the bridge; if I'm playing plugged I run it through a Baggs Para-Acoustic DI box. Intellitouch or BOSS stage tuner depending on circumstance and I also use a Kyser quick change capo when the need arises

I usually play Irish/Scottish/Australian music, however I also play it in church where we cover lots of different styles!

Cheers,

Simon