Mandolin Seconds, how to tell?

[Hobo]

Do today's manufacturers typically have a way of marking an instrument as a second? I have a The Loar LM400 with an obvious headstock inlay flaw and there is a small dot on the inside label. Is that how they mark a mandolin as a second? What do others manufacturers do, if anything?

[sbarnes]

i have one that is marked on the back of the headstock...engraved into the wood.....2nd
but i've never been able to find the flaw....

[Steve Ostrander]

I've seen guitars with a "2" on the back of the headstock. I have a feeling that there is no convention among mfgrs. for this.

[Eddie Sheehy]

The problem with marking something as a 'second' is that it stigmatizes it as 'flawed'. Structurally flawed instruments are not marked as seconds they are scrapped. Seconds usually denote minor imperfections - usually in the finish - that disqualify them as being sold as new. Most used mandolins have more imperfections than a new 'second'. So do not pay full price for an instrument marked as a '2', 'Second', 'B' etc. but grab one being sold for a 'used' price... I've had two mandolins that were stamped as '2', and I never found the imperfection in either.

[Earthwood]

Does anyone know if Gibson has seconds? If so, where would one find such an item?

[bmac]

I don't know about Gibson having seconds, but I would doubt it... That is a little like askng if Rolls Royce ever have "seconds".

I suppose they inevitably have less than perfect instruments, but I'll bet they are not sold through Gibson dealers. I suspect they might be marketed as no name instruments with any identifying info removed. But that is just a guess.

[JeffD]

I purchased a John Jorgenson Paris Swing that was advertised as blemished. I got a deep discount and have never figured out where the blemish is. Nothing obvious on it to dindicate it is anything but first rate.

[OldSausage]

There's a big "2" stamped on me in a place I dare not mention. I've never found the imperfection either.

[Rodney Riley]

There's a big "2" stamped on me in a place I dare not mention. I've never found the imperfection either.

Bet your wife could tell ya.........

[1-2-many]

I had a Godin A8 that I later found out was a second, something was stamped/added to to the serial number. (Sorry can't remember what, but it was clearly added. Only found out when I contacted Godin). Currently own a Mandobird IV stamped "USED" on back of head stock. Both were purchased off ebay, and not identified a second. Lessons learned, don't want something so badly that you get it badly, and always get a solid return policy on something you can't play first in person.
The Mandobird plays great now after MUCH tweeking, the Godin had a resonant frequency that was never resolved to my satisfaction. Sold it locally at a steep discount.

[Joe Mendel]

I don't know if Gibson sells seconds now, but they have in the past. I have a Victory MVX solid body electric that I bought new. It is clearly marked on the back of the headstock "second", I never found the flaw until I had it refinished. There is a long, but very tightly closed crack in the maple body, under and just the bridge and tailpiece. I had it refinished as a tobacco sunburst and it is barely visible under the translucent finish, it was not visible at all under the opaque original finish. I also once owned a used J-45 that was labeled "second" on the back of the headstock, I never found the flaw on it.

[GTison]

I remember on this board that mfgs would finish instruments with wood flaws in Black to cover it. I guess that would prevent some 2nds.

[Paul Hostetter]

Do today's manufacturers typically have a way of marking an instrument as a second? I have a The Loar LM400 with an obvious headstock inlay flaw and there is a small dot on the inside label. Is that how they mark a mandolin as a second?

Yes. From Travis Atz, VP at Music Link:

For the record, we DO mark our seconds - the only exception is if there is a single (i.e. only one!) small blem we will sell at a slight discount and we do not mark so that we can still honor the warranty!! Any other sold seconds have a black mark preceding the serial #.

Clear?

What do others manufacturers do, if anything?

Some I know just sell them out the back door to friends. Once upon a time, Gibson would gather up a roomful of go-backs, do whatever fixes were necessary, but mostly just paint them black and change the label and blow them out to dealers.

[Hobo]

For the record, we DO mark our seconds - the only exception is if there is a single (i.e. only one!) small blem we will sell at a slight discount and we do not mark so that we can still honor the warranty!! Any other sold seconds have a black mark preceding the serial #.

Thanks for that information... here's a close-up of my label. There's a black dot at the top of label above the serial #.

[Paul Hostetter]

That's not what he's talking about. In other words, you're covered by the warrantee, even if there is some other blem. H headstock problem isn't structural or anything life-threatening, so they'd have let that go.

I too have seen "The Loar" and "Recording King" seconds (they call it "B" stock) that folks got on eBay for close to or below normal wholesale price that seemed 100% clean.