scalloping the fingerboard extension

[Jim Nollman]

I've just started playing a classic F5 with the fingerboard extension or so-called "florida". I suppose I'll eventually get used to it, although the idea of scalloping the extension even a quarter of an inch is already starting to appeal to me.

I'm certainly not a luthier, but I have made musical instruments, plus hardwood furniture that includes inlays and carvings. I own a foredom flexible shaft tool with several grinders for hardwood. That would let me do the job.

Any advise on how to proceed with this job without destroying the mandolin? It's a very nice sounding mandolin and I definitely don't want to endanger anything. I'm all ears, if someone feels that I shouldn't even try this job on my own.

If not me, about how much will I have to spend for a pro to do this same job.

[sunburst]

You'll find that most people call that a "scoop" rather than a "scallop", which usually means lowering the 'board between frets.
Two methods, one for power tools, one for hand tools.
http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Luth...roptongue.html
http://hamlettinstruments.com/repair...extender-scoop

[Folkmusician.com]

Currently, Frank and John's methods are my two favorite ways too go about this. Even with a good handhold on your small router, this can be dangerous. If you use a router, make certain the cutter is sharp and you use a high enough speed. So far, I have never had a mishap with the router method, but there is a good opportunity to slip, rip binding off, etc...

John's method is much safer, and just about as fast for me. I think this is the wiser way to go.

[Jim Nollman]

Many thanks, John. A scoop it is.

Yes, I can certainly handle the job the way you so carefully demonstrate it. Plus, I much prefer to work with chisels and files rather than dust-releasing burr tools.

[MikeEdgerton]

I started out on mine using Frank Ford's method as John's was not yet out there. I say started out because I found that I had to modify the method a bit to fit my needs on my Gibson F5G. I can tell you that I started out with a small laminate trimmer (router) and ended up finishing with a sharp chisel, files and ever finer sandpaper. The moment of truth comes in that few seconds before you move the router across the fretboard. Just take your time and be careful and you should be fine.

[ellisppi]

I would just add that you should be aware of how deep you are scooping and watch the side binding. It is more often than not impossible to get below the slots and still have enough binding left to look good, so removing the slots could be a goal but not a given. If the slots remain, it looks real sharp to inlay nickle (filed fret tang) in the .023 slots. Also, as a home project, the whole thing can be done with files and sandpaper on a stick. I would never hoist a router or dremel up on the fingerboard without a good jig setup.
OK, well I would (have) but its dicey for the inexperienced

[Jim Garber]

It is interesting that both Frank and John are flying without a net. Both are pros, tho, and I imagine have seriously steady hands. I would be nervous about gouging out the top even with the cantilevered fretboard.

[Dale Ludewig]

+1 for what Tom said. You can't necessarily remove the slots and leave enough material to be either a good look or stable. The nickel tang is a good option, of course. I've also had customers pleased with maple veneer in the remaining slots. As to freehanding the deal with a laminate trimmer sitting on a radiused board............ not for the faint of heart.

[jackmalonis]

You'll find that most people call that a "scoop" rather than a "scallop", which usually means lowering the 'board between frets.
Two methods, one for power tools, one for hand tools.
http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Luth...roptongue.html
http://hamlettinstruments.com/repair...extender-scoop

That's pretty awesome!
I kinda wish I had the extension just so I could scoop it now!

[sunburst]

I can send you one! Not everybody has them scooped...

(Sometimes they scoop and then later do the full floridectomy.)

[Fstpicker]

Just did this yesterday, on my Loar LM-520. I was able to remove the final 7 frets on the extension with my large blade of my pocket knife. Didn't think they would be removed that easily after hearing others say that the Loar's taller frets were some of the hardest to remove. After this, I started out with a rasp file (tried a drill horizontally and that didn't work!) at the point parallel and as close as possible to the remaining fret still in place. After making that horizontal hole, I used a sanding block, rasp file back and forth, and sanding and sanding by hand, especially the outer binding all around the sides and end to smooth it out. Took about 1.5-2 hours going carefully. Be so careful not to gouge the binding on the sides. I did a little gouge but was able to sand it so it blended in fine with no remaining sign of my mistake, thankfully.

The results turned out very well, IMO, and look just as good as Frank's did on Frets.com. AND, NO CLICKING SOUND when playing over the extension. So glad that is gone.

Jeff

[MikeEdgerton]

...OK, well I would (have) but its dicey for the inexperienced

I have referred to this as going forth with the courage of the ignorant. Doing it again I would have just used the chisels, files and sandpaper. It actually would have been easier and I also would stop by your local home store and get a large sample of laminate (Formica, Wilsonart) and put it under the tongue just too protect that area while you do the scoop.

[Jim Nollman]

How did this idea of adding a fingerboard extension get started? Is there anybody out there playing mandolin seriously who actually prefers having this non-functional piece of wood extend two inches into the picking area? Do people actually request this "feature" from builders? If so, for what reason? Does it add mass that affects the tone in any meaningful way?

I played a dance last night with guitar and fiddle, and tried my best to keep the pick from occasionally clicking against the extension. It takes some practice. I suppose I'll eventually learn to keep away from the extension, although I much prefer having the expanded picking area. When I started digging in for more volume, the click gets quite loud and annoying. One strange thing is, when I pick over the twelfth fret to achieve a different sound, I hardly ever click against the fingerboard. Not sure what the difference is.

I've decided to have a local luthier do the job. It's a 30 year old instrument bought from a player, and it needs repair of the binding, plus a fret dressing, so I'll just get everything done at once.

[Jim Garber]

How did this idea of adding a fingerboard extension get started?

Remember that the F5 and the F4 before it were intended for classical or semi-classical music and I think the intent was to give players the access to the upper frets for some virtuoso pieces.

Then again, this guy does use those upper frets once in awhile:

[Fstpicker]

Forgot to add one important thing when I "scooped" my fretboard extension yesterday. After removing the bridge and pulling the strings to the side of the fretboard to get them out of the way, I put a cloth underneath the extension to protect the wood from damage and taped the cloth to keep it in place. My only mistake was in not putting a piece of cloth covering the back side of the mandolin. I had put a paperback book under the mandolin near the heel, and didn't realize that the book would cause some scratches on the back of the mandolin. Going to have a hard time getting rid of them, if at all.

Oh well, you live and learn. At least the front finish was preserved with no damage!

Jeff

[Tommando]

Here's the first extension scoop I did. I set out to use chisels, mill file, and various sand paper. Pretty quickly switched to a Dremel with a barrel sander on it. Quick, light touches with it, trying to hold it level with two hands. Then the file, etc.. Not perfect, but not too bad IMO.

[Spruce]

[Fstpicker]

Here's the first extension scoop I did. I set out to use chisels, mill file, and various sand paper. Pretty quickly switched to a Dremel with a barrel sander on it. Quick, light touches with it, trying to hold it level with two hands. Then the file, etc.. Not perfect, but not too bad IMO.

Looks like you did a good job! You didn't go quite as deep as I did, but certainly deep enough to serve the purpose.

Jeff

[blauserk]

That bolo tie is about the only use I personally could get out of a fingerboard extension (other than, inadvertently and in combination with a plectrum, as a very quiet percussion instrument).

[Fstpicker]

Here's a picture of what my scooped extension looks like now:




Jeff

[Tommando]

Thanks, Jeff. Great looking job on yours! I took my mine down just to the bottom of the original fret slots after making sure there would be some binding left. The binding in the photo was added later when I radiused the fretboard and replaced the neck binding. I did not radius the scoop. Haven't gotten around to cleaning it up nicely yet. Notice that the Dremel burned the rosewood in a couple of spots.

Spruce, the Florida Bolo Tie could be a new fashion!

[Spruce]

Spruce, the Florida Bolo Tie could be a new fashion!

Thanks to Mr. Bussman...
Of course....

[Fstpicker]

My fretboard is flat, so there was no need to radius the extension.

This is fun!!

Jeff

[shortymack]

Looks great Jeff! Never could figure out why they even have that there in the first place. It looks like it does nothing but get in the way of picking. Bad design flaw IMO.

[Bill Snyder]

Some classical players use them. See the video above posted by Jim Garber.