Difference between F4 and F5 other then looks

**StuartGold** · Jul-26-2012, 6:52pm

I'm considering building either an F4 or F5 mando.I understand that the scale is different and one is 14 frets and the other is 12 to the body. Not sure how that would translate in my playing. In truth, I like the look of the oval better than the "F" holes. What is the difference in the sound quality between the two? Has anyone out there tried an F5 build but with an Oval and different bracing patterns?

**mrmando** · Jul-26-2012, 7:17pm

The scale lengths are not different. The F5 has a longer neck but the scale length is the same as an F4, resulting in the F5 bridge being located further up the body. You could build a "hybrid F4," which combines an oval soundhole with the longer neck.

**JeffD** · Jul-26-2012, 8:02pm

The biggest difference is the difference the sound holes make. To my year the F4 shares a sound quality with the F2 and the A2 and other oval holes, while the F5 is the iconic example of what f holes can do. It sounds more akin to the A mandolins with f holes than it does to the other Fs with ovals.

**f5loar** · Jul-26-2012, 8:14pm

Gee, I always thought the biggest difference between a really good F4 and a really good F5 was about $190,000.

**StuartGold** · Jul-26-2012, 9:14pm

Originally Posted by JeffD

The biggest difference is the difference the sound holes make. To my year the F4 shares a sound quality with the F2 and the A2 and other oval holes, while the F5 is the iconic example of what f holes can do. It sounds more akin to the A mandolins with f holes than it does to the other Fs with ovals.

I guess that the question that I am asking is exactly what is the difference bertween the sound an "F" hole makes from the sound that an oval makes. I'm a beginner to mandolins and when I'm at them music store, they sound similar to me.

**JeffD** · Jul-26-2012, 9:23pm

Originally Posted by StuartGold

I guess that the question that I am asking is exactly what is the difference bertween the sound an "F" hole makes from the sound that an oval makes.

Its hard to describe, but the f hole is more focused. It projects a little better in a more focused direction. It has perhaps less sustain, making it great for bluegrass chops and fast un-muddy picking.

The oval hole is less focused, the sound is everywhere. The voice is a little less percussive with more sustain and more "legato". Great for double stop harmonies, slow cowboy waltzes, tremolo, and high lonesome.

Not that you couldn't do either on either, many have and many have excelled, but as a general tendency many find what I have said to be true.

**Marty Jacobson** · Jul-26-2012, 9:28pm

This is a little bit like painting a picture about dancing. Just listen to them. You can even get a sense of them from better quality YouTube videos. The differences are pretty marked. Both have things to love about them. I would hazard a guess that you will want to have both eventually. :-)

**mrmando** · Jul-26-2012, 9:37pm

Well, far be it from me to discourage anyone from building a mandolin ... but if you don't understand how different sound holes affect the tone, you're unlikely to get the sound you expect out of any mandolin you build.

**Jim Hilburn** · Jul-26-2012, 9:40pm

As much as the holes and neck length, the elevated fingerboard also makes a huge difference. It allows for a more dome shaped arch since the top doesn't have to also act as the fingerboard support. That allows for a stronger arch that can be carved to be more responsive.
But of course, it's all of the above that makes the difference.

**OldGus** · Jul-26-2012, 11:25pm

Originally Posted by StuartGold

I guess that the question that I am asking is exactly what is the difference bertween the sound an "F" hole makes from the sound that an oval makes. I'm a beginner to mandolins and when I'm at them music store, they sound similar to me.

That's right Stuart, there is not necessarily a tone difference, it's more of a response difference. Ovals tend to shine on soloing and open chords sometimes having a fuller sound while F hole models tend to have more focus and a tighter(quicker) response to chords and soloing overall. In Bluegrass music each person in the band generally takes a turn at soloing fast while the rest play rhythm. The F models tend to be better at the focused rhythm chop chords than oval hole mandolins which is why they don't get used as much for that type of music. For Old Time and Irish jigs ovals tend to get used more for their strong open soloing capabilities and sustain. This can all be challenged with the right craftsmanship and wood combination. A lot of mandolin buyers have tunnel vision but there a many potentially viable options. As a good builder it would be your job to accentuate the positives and diminish the negative side of each model.

**allenhopkins** · Jul-27-2012, 1:46am

While it's not a complete analogy, think of the difference between the sound of a carved-top, f-hole "jazz" guitar, and a round-hole steel-string. The round-hole guitar is (most likely) a flat-top rather than a carved-top, so not strictly analogous to a carved-top, oval-hole mandolin like an F-4, but you derive some of the acoustic differences.

And you could build an oval-hole, 14-fret-to-the-body, raised fingerboard mandolin, should you want to. When Gibson "reissued" the F-4 recently, they made it with a longer neck and raised fingerboard. One in the classifieds now.