What do they Teach at Berklee? (no mando content)

[Mandobart]

So I'm reading The Fretboard Journal latest edition, interview with Susan Tedeschi, a great blues singer and decent guitarist. Among her many accomplishments are studying voice at Berklee, a music school with a great rep as we all know. However, in part of the interview Susan mentions how she only recently learned "the pentatonic scale...the difference between major and minor, which is really just the major third or minor third..." and other revelations that many of us have learned formally or otherwise.

Not trying to knock Berklee or Susan Tedeschi, but how does one go through any music program at such a place and not learn those fundamentals of theory? I would like to hear especially from anyone who has attended such an institute as student or instructor. Sadly, the great John McGann won't be able to provide his always appreciated input.

[Ivan Kelsall]

That's a very good question & one that i've pondered more than a few times. I get the general idea that there's more than one type of music course that goes on at Berklee,but i might be wrong. I think that there may be the full time music students,studying music through a 3 - 4 year degree course,& then the students who enter for a 1 year (or so) course on a particular facet of music ie.theory,composition etc. I know that in the 2 Schools of Music in Manchester UK where i live,''The Royal Northern College of Music'' & ''Chetham's School of Music'',the minimum qualification for entry is an ABRSM ( Associated Boards of the Royal Schools of Music) grade 8. By that time you're already playing concertos & you're deeply into music theory. I suspect that Berklee will be somewhat similar & yes,we would have loved the sadly missed Mr McGann to advise us as ever,
Ivan

[JeffD]

I am more inclined to believe that Susan Tedeshi is, perhaps, exaggerating as to how recently she learned these things. Not necessarily deliberately, mind you, but the telescoping effect of time makes the past seem closer than it is (was?). It seems like last week I graduated from down down down down to down up down up, and in reality it was quite a while ago. Things like pentatonics, blues, indeed any kind of technical epiphany, can seem like it occured "just yesterday" because of the force of the realization.

In addition, in such interviews, accomplished professional musicians are trying to be helpful and appeal to the amateur and hobbiest musicians in the crowd, and so are likely to de-emphasize, again not necessarily consciously, how long they have known what to them are basics and fundamentals.

I have seen tendencies like this in friendly accomplished musicians, and I interpret no deliberate disingenuousness. And on the other side, Berklee has earned the benefit of the doubt in my opinion.

[KristinEliza]

I'm wondering if she really meant that she just 'got it' or realized how they worked, or how to apply it to her singing.

I had been playing scales since I was seven, but I didn't understand them until my first quarter music theory class in college when they were finally explained to me.

And it wasn't until my sixth year of teaching that I was hit over the head with understanding of a concept I was taught in college.

[August Watters]

I'm wondering if she really meant that she just 'got it' or realized how they worked, or how to apply it to her singing. . .And it wasn't until my sixth year of teaching that I was hit over the head with understanding of a concept I was taught in college.

I wondered the same thing. I don't have any information about ST, but can tell you that understanding major and minor scales is something that every Berklee student understands in the first semester, and is able to sing by the end of the second semester.

There aren't any part-time students (well, except in special cases) or students taking only part of the curriculum - the Berklee concept is based around the "core curriculum" -- basic topics that are required for everyone, and reinforce each other: ear training, theory, arranging, ensembles, private lessons. The core curriculum takes two years to complete, and since everyone who graduates completes it, Berklee graduates are identified with a specific set of skills.

Ivan, there's no entrance requirement such as you describe for the other schools - admission is done by weighing different factors such as experience, training, performance skills, and motivation. Notice "performance skills" was only one of those things, so there's a very broad range of skills amongst incoming students, and the core curriculum is taught at different levels. That's a good thing, IMHO! In recent years they've introduced entrance auditions too, and that has upped the average level of performance skills.

I'd say we all miss John. I knew him for nearly 30 years. RIP, John.

[John McCoy]

August, I was waiting for you to weigh in here. I wondered whether her statement might have an even narrower meaning, specifically that a pentatonic scale can be either major or minor. That seems the kind of thing that might be covered by a one-paragraph explanation somewhere early on, then never focused upon because the assumption (which one would hope to be accurate) would be that anybody who knows a full scale can figure out how to omit a couple of notes without any tutelage aimed at that specific process (I won't even call it a 'skill').

Just a thought.

[August Watters]

Interesting thought. And maybe there are layers of meaning here about pentatonics: it's easy to think of it as a simple construct, but (as has been explored here) there are multiple perspectives, some quite advanced, about how pentatonics can be used. Could it have been a comment about starting to visualize pentatonics from different perspectives?

Pentatonics were embraced by my department (Ear Training) perhaps 20 years ago, so at that time all students worked from an ET book that used that methodology to organize things. But I think ST attended after that time, when the book had been reorganized around major/minor scales.

[JonZ]

I'm wondering if she really meant that she just 'got it' or realized how they worked, or how to apply it to her singing.

I had been playing scales since I was seven, but I didn't understand them until my first quarter music theory class in college when they were finally explained to me.

And it wasn't until my sixth year of teaching that I was hit over the head with understanding of a concept I was taught in college.

Now I am going to be up all night wondering what it is I still don't understand about scales.

[KristinEliza]

Now I am going to be up all night wondering what it is I still don't understand about scales.

Kind of embarrassing JonZ...but her's my scale story FWIW...

I had to memorize scales for various competition requirements...major and natural minor. I memorized them from sheet music. My private instructor told me that to play a minor scale, all I needed to do was take a major scale and lower the 3rd, 6th, and 7th. I had no idea what she was talking about. It wasn't until my first college music theory class when the instructor said simply "The first note of the scale is the first scale degree, and the second note of the scale is the second scale degree. etc." that I got the proverbial *lightbulb* and *facepalm*.

Of course...there's a lot more to scales than just that...but that's my silly story.