Self-introduction and musings on mandolins and MAS

[CeeCee_C]

Charley -

No worries.

Hank -

Point well taken... But here's something to consider. Think about those times that you see a really high performance automobile that has its brakes on for every curve, no matter how minor. Ever think "What a waste?".

Although I don't like to be guided by what I imagine others might think, I don't want to be the driver of that car.

So I do agree with you. Life *IS* too short and if I wait until I play like Chris Thile, it'll never happen. You've given me something to think about.

It's not as though I'm above a different MAS (motorcycle acquisition syndrome). I have 15 give or take. But after 22 years of racing, one New England championship and 6 or 7 top 3 seasons in class, I can say with confidence that I know how to "play" a motorcycle.

BTW, most motorcycle racers hate being "BBGed" (beaten by a girl).

Yours,

CeeCee

[JeffD]

Point well taken... But here's something to consider. Think about those times that you see a really high performance automobile that has its brakes on for every curve, no matter how minor. Ever think "What a waste?".

I understand. I really do. In the world of sailboats, many folks own sailboats built to withstand the rigors of open ocean sailing. You could take some of these boats around the world. But most of them never get out of sight of land. Folks want to buy something that evokes more adventure than they are willing to experience, and boat manufacturers have to build to the standards they claim for the boat.

I used to marvel at that, and think it would make much more sense to buy what you need and are likely to use. But if everyone did that, not enough blue water capable boats would get sold to make any money at it. But, talking with my brother, I can see that for many boat owners, there is a real, tangible, transcendent love and appreciation for their boat's over-built characteristics, and for what it could do if asked. Part of what they purchased is the potential to adventure like the probably never will.

So, mandolins, boats, cars, motorcycles, if you are going to love it and take care of it, I have no beef with you owning it, even if you never really use it to its potential. And if all you bought is that feeling that "someday I am gonna really ...." well ok, thats what you bought, and it keeps the high performance manufacturers and luthiers in business.


We all dream of more life than we can actually ever get, and I am the last person to cast a shadow on anyone's dream.

[sunburst]

Think about those times that you see a really high performance automobile that has its brakes on for every curve, no matter how minor. Ever think "What a waste?".

All the time. I grew up a hillbilly, learned to drive on twisty mountain roads with bias ply tires on 3000 to 4000 lb cars with suspension systems that felt like boats.
All cars made in the last 20 years handle like dreams by comparison, but when I get stuck (in my Honda) behind a BMW, Mercedes, or whatever, with what looks like 30 or 40 series tires on 20" rims, and the driver is afraid of every turn I think "what a waste".
It brings back a short conversation I once had with my boss at the shop where I once worked, though. This was back when a $3000 instrument was a very expensive instrument, BTW. The boss had just strung up one of the fancier models in the line and was particularly excited about the sound of this particular instrument. He went on about the sound for a while, then he said with disgust "... and the guy who's getting this can't even play! There should be some minimum requirement to own one of these!". I said to him; "There is. You have to have $3000."

It's as others have said. None of us "deserve" a fine instrument if being able to play it to it's full potential is the standard that determines what we deserve. There are few instruments that do not have more potential than Chris Thile, or Evan Marshal, or Mike Marshal, or... can take full advantage of. We all deserve a fine instrument if we want it and can afford it. It can be a lifetime instrument, and when you consider the hours of pleasure it can bring over a lifetime, it's not that expensive. At the same time, that lifetime instrument for many of us can be very moderately priced.

[Jack Roberts]

I have friends who have spent a lot more money on boats and golf clubs that they use a lot less than I use my Gibson. Yes, they are better golfers and boaters than I am a musician. But they have the life they want and I have the life I want.

[CeeCee_C]

All -

I'm re-assessing my position on this. Yes, it would be a joy to play a beautiful sounding instrument and know that it's there whenever I want it.

If I wait until I'm truly worthy by my perfectionist standards, it's not going to happen in my lifetime. And when one gets to the age where ones' friends begin to shuffle off this mortal coil (to Guam, I think), perhaps it's time to be a little more self-indulgent.

The Collings or Weber I'd buy costs just a little more than I've got. So I guess I'll keep squirreling the dollars away until I hit that number.

Thanks to everyone for your input.

[sunburst]

If I wait until I'm truly worthy by my perfectionist standards, it's not going to happen in my lifetime. And when one gets to the age where ones' friends begin to shuffle off this mortal coil (to Guam, I think), perhaps it's time to be a little more self-indulgent.

Now we're talkin'!

I'm starting to feel that too. I recently grabbed some of the wood from my wood stash that I've been saving until I felt worthy of using it, as a builder. I concluded that I probably never would feel worthy, and I'm almost finished with an instrument made from some of the best I have. We don't live forever...

[pjlama]

All -

I'm re-assessing my position on this. Yes, it would be a joy to play a beautiful sounding instrument and know that it's there whenever I want it.

If I wait until I'm truly worthy by my perfectionist standards, it's not going to happen in my lifetime. And when one gets to the age where ones' friends begin to shuffle off this mortal coil (to Guam, I think), perhaps it's time to be a little more self-indulgent.

The Collings or Weber I'd buy costs just a little more than I've got. So I guess I'll keep squirreling the dollars away until I hit that number.

Thanks to everyone for your input.

I'm just waiting until you start the which mandolin should I buy for $xxxx, I love those threads when there's some dough to spend. You'll be just fine if you allow me to be your consultant, no charge of course Honestly you have enough saved for a lifetime instrument now.

PS, it's nice to get a new member with such a great first post, I was truly engaged by your first post . Thanks for joining the party and enjoy the ride. I find that the community here really helps me to stay focused on the mandolin and these people help me enjoy it, I hope we can all support your journey as well.

[CeeCee_C]

PJ -

Thank you so much. That's a very nice thing to say. I appreciate it very much. Hopefully, I can be equally supportive of you and everyone in this community.

There's not going to be much agonizing over "which one".

It's either going to be a Collings MF5 or its Weber equivalent - with a red spruce top and in a lacquer finish. The varnish just sounds too fragile. And if my understanding is correct, a goodly number of touring professionals travel with lacquer finished mandolins. I could be wrong on this, but... In any case, I'll talk to Weber and Collings and select the thinnest lacquer finish they offer.

The other thing that keeps me focused on these two builders is that my preferred music shop is a dealer for both Collings and Weber. Support is important.

I've heard that Collings instruments are more consistent. On the other hand, Weber offers greater flexibility so you can get exactly what you want. If you want to pay $500 for bound F holes or $300 for block inlays on the neck, Weber'll do it for you.

The tough part is going to be spousal buy-in. I'm thinking that I'll wait my technique is noticeably improved and I'm playing out regularly. When you live with an accomplished musician (clarinet), it's almost impossible to fake progress. Still, it should be within a year.

Yours,

CeeCee

[hank]

CeeCee did you know one of the most respected clarinet players on the planet is also one of the most respected mandolin players. You've definitely got some goggling to do. Don't rush into it, give it some time your taste may change as you get your ducks in a row! Save your stash until you got it going on a bit more.

[JLewis]

Great thread! Everyone...

This is why I hang around the Cafe.

[CeeCee_C]

Too many choices will make a person crazy. Sometimes, you have to limit the scope of a decision to avoid insanity. That's why (for now) the selection set is {Collings,Weber}.

[Freckles]

I have friends who have spent a lot more money on boats and golf clubs that they use a lot less than I use my Gibson. Yes, they are better golfers and boaters than I am a musician. But they have the life they want and I have the life I want.

+1

My peers 'waste' their money on things I don't value, I 'waste' my money of things they don't value (instruments, solar panels...)

As a newbie, I have spent more than I needed to on my first instrument, but given I'm a pianist and cellist (expensive for decent ), good midrange mandos are small biccies.

I'm not a huge fan of the upgrade, if you're committed just jump in boots & all (to your budget of course). You can always sell it. I spent thousands on my first cello and should have gone the extra bit and got a better one (I had the $$$ at the time). It didn't develop well and now I play it begrudgingly.

Perhaps I'm writing to justify my purchase? Nah, it doesn't need justification

[CeeCee_C]

All -

The spousal unit and I just had a conversation that basically went as follows:

Me: "I'm going to Acoustic Music on Saturday. Going to play some really
good mandolins. Life is short, I'm not getting any younger, and just...
because I want it."

Spousal Unit: " "

But if there was a dire problem with this plan, I'd know instantly. Body language, facial expression, etc.

Besides, if I order something now, I still won't have it in my hot little hands for months.

I've never given any consideration to a used instrument, until this moment. If it was a car, my position would be that I'll buy it if my mechanic approves it.

How does one orchestrate having a privately sold instrument evaluated prior to purchase?

Thanks for everything, gals and guys. You're all awesome!

CeeCee

[hank]

Used is the most bang for your buck. Unless it's vintage, Fleebay weird, etc. you are probably ok without adult supervision. You just get it tweaked out after the purchase.

[Mike Snyder]

The cafe classifieds are an awesome resource for anyone looking to buy used. Any misrepresentation is very infrequent and dealt with as it becomes apparent. Whatever you're interested in will show up eventually, and the seller is usually willing to do what's necessary for the buyer to be comfortable with the transaction. Mandolins get played over the phone, soundfiles, videos, etc.
Not as comfy as your local stringshop, but the selection is pretty jaw-dropping.

I'll just stress this point; What you're interested WILL show up in the cafe classifieds, sooner or later. Patience.

[CeeCee_C]

I think I'm convinced. Life is short. I should play the best instruments I can get my hands on.

[pjlama]

Sounds like a plan. If you're ordering I'd strongly encourage you to go Colllings. I say this because of the consistency you mentioned. Some of the best stuff I've played was Collings. I've heard great Webers too but I also heard some that were so tight that they would never come alive. I'm sure that I'll piss off the Weber faithful but that's the truth. Regarding lacquer vs varnish, lacquer is more durable but varnish instruments are more open in the first few years of life. So if you want durability you're on the right track. Good luck and enjoy and thanks for continuing to sharing your journey with us.

[JeffD]

I'll just stress this point; What you're interested WILL show up in the cafe classifieds, sooner or later. Patience.

I would not have believed this, but it happened for me.

[JeffD]

I love the sound of the Collings MT. Just a wonderful instrument, everyone one of them I have played. I haven't had the chance to play their other offerings, but I expect they are excellent. I also love my Weber Aspen II and have been impressed by every Weber I have ever played.

I have only had experience with the folks at Weber, and they are really great. From the top down they are really great folks. I have not had any interaction with the folks at Collings, but I have only heard good things.

I think it boils down to the particular instrument - how it feels, how it sounds, how you feel when you play it.

Don't over fuss, you know, deep down you already know, this is not the last mandolin you will ever purchase. C'mon..., you know it true.

[Mike Snyder]

One mandolin to play them all...............................my precious.

[wshelt]

I certainly have enjoyed following this thread because I (and I expect many others) have been there and done that. A few observations: 1. Last year sold my Chevy truck for 10% of what I paid for it 15 years ago, and sold my F5g for 150% of what I paid for it 19 years ago...wish all my investments were this good. 2. The mandomasters sound the way they do beause of skill and great instruments to enhance their talent. 3. My Gibson sounded pretty good, but when I played that Red Diamond Osorne replica I was astounded at the difference in sound and playability. 4. I now look forward to getting out my Diamond everly day and am spending twice as much time playing...friends tell me that my playing is drastically improved(they appreciate that). I agree that we can, and should, enjoy playing whatever mando we are able to aquire, but a quality instrument is a good investment financially and an even better investment in our quality of life.

[artilleryo]

My wife has the cousin to MAS, UAS. I think she has 8 ukeleles. Maybe 9 but she explains one of them by claiming it belongs to my 8 year old daughter. She delights in explaining the ins and outs of various woods, builders, etc. to me. Even went to a congress back east this spring where she hung out with ukelele people, talked about ukelele things and did ukelele stuff. A small price to pay for the happiness it brings her.

[lukmanohnz]

It's either going to be a Collings MF5 or its Weber equivalent -

When I upgraded from my first mandolin to the (so far) ONE, I had settled on a Weber (though not in the same price range you are considering). But things didn't go quite according to plan. I certainly understand your attraction to those companies' products - I have played a few of each that were stunning. But based on my own experience, I would suggest you try to keep an open mind and audition any and every mandolin you can at your chosen price point before buying. That's a boatload of money and a major acquisition, and by limiting yourself to only Weber or Collings, you might miss out on a truly amazing piece of hand-made artisanship that would give you more satisfaction while simultaneously providing patronage to a deserving individual builder. IMHO, the support issue is a red herring - you will need to find a highly competent local luthier to maintain your acquisition, and any luthier worthy of being entrusted with a Collings or Weber of that value will be able to apply his or her skills to any instrument you choose.

[Jesse Harmon]

I started mandolin not too long ago coming from classical guitar and I purchased a Rigel Q, oval hole as my first instrument, (other than the American Conservatory bowlback that I had for years on top of a kitchen cabinet). 1700 bucks and I started playing my ffcp's and a few fiddle tunes. It could be considered a waste but I enjoy every minute and the radial neck seemed to fit me like a glove. I have progressed to some rags and reading adventures with the amount of time I have and have no regrets about the money spent, probably would have spent more and probably will spend more in the future. Its about the journey not the destination for me. Same with sailboats, they displace so much water whether its in the North Sea on a world voyage or on Lake Michigan for a weekend.

[fatt-dad]

From the OP, who it now seems to be looking at the most expensive f-model Collings. . .

So why the irrational longing for a prettier, better, more respected, MORE EXPENSIVE mandolin?

It's because, buying is easy and learning to play is hard. It's fun/easy to obsess over x-bracing v. parallel; 1-1/8" v. 1-3/16ths; varnish v. lacquer; curley v. quilted; thick fret wire v. thin fret wire; worm over v. worm under; 12-fret v. 15-fret neck joint; a-model v. f-model; etc., etc., etc. . .

Fact is (to me) once I got my Flatiron A5-1 (actually my Flatiron 1N), I had all the mandolin I needed for my journey. (I've owned many mandolins since getting these two.) I bet it's the same for your 300-series Eastman. Now, will you take the thousands of hours needed to get fluent?

Now that I have my Cohen it's pretty much game over. No kidding that mandolin is what I was after and I'm lucky to have it!!

f-d