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Thread: Self-introduction and musings on mandolins and MAS

  1. #1
    Registered User CeeCee_C's Avatar
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    Default Self-introduction and musings on mandolins and MAS

    Hi All -

    Greetings from southeastern CT.

    I'm new to Mandolincafe, having taken a ~15 year hiatus from playing mandolin in order to devote myself to blues guitar and to road-racing vintage motorcycles (on proper race courses, not on public roads).

    Just after the New Year, my spouse and I attended a number of concerts and I was inspired to pick up my mando again. I'm pleased to be able to say truthfully that I've been playing daily ever since.

    I soon discovered that the v-shaped neck on my old Gibson A1 doesn't really suit me anymore, having spent so much time playing guitars with more rounded neck profiles. So, I took a rasp to the neck of my 1919 Gibson and...

    Just kidding.

    It *DID* make me realize that I should have a mandolin with a more rounded neck.

    My price expectations were based on more recent experiences buying guitars.

    So, at first I was surprised that the price points separating inexpensive (but good quality), moderately priced, and expensive mandolins start significantly higher and are farther apart than those for guitars (although where one draws the lines is highly individual and subjective). On further consideration of the vast differences in sales volumes and production methods for guitars vs. mandolins, not so surprising.

    But owing to my long absence from playing, I decided to set a price ceiling at $1000 give or take.

    Looking around online, I read about Eastman, particularly their value and quality for money spent. And after playing a variety of F-style (scroll envy) instruments in my price range, I bought an Eastman 315 from Acoustic Music in Guilford, CT.

    While I'm at it, I'd like to thank the guys at Youngblood's Music Workshop/Acoustic Music. I have nothing but praise for George Youngblood and Brian Wolfe. If you're anywhere close, I recommend them highly. (www.acousticmusic.org)

    Although the 315 wasn't the most expensive instrument I test drove, it seemed to fit me best both in terms of the neck shape and the way my hands seemed to automatically settle into the correct positions. After George set it up, it was even better.

    And then a couple of months later, an Eastman 515 became available locally at a very reasonable price. The instrument had been played a few times but was effectively new. So it came home with me.

    There's very little difference between the playability of the 315 and the 515 although the 315 actually sounds richer and projects better.

    Brian suggests that it might sound as good as it does due to the thinness of the finish. Or it may just be the craftsmanship put into this particular instrument.

    Now we're up to date... So... some thoughts on MAS... some reasonable, others being complete rationalizations...

    I now have 3 mandolins with "performance envelopes" that exceed my own skill level. When I was racing regularly, I upgraded my race bikes only when they became the limiting factor.

    With less than a year of demonstrated commitment to improving my rusty playing skills, I don't *need* another mandolin.

    So why the irrational longing for a prettier, better, more respected, MORE EXPENSIVE mandolin?

    **********************
    Better sound?

    Better playability?

    Snob appeal?

    Being able to look at something beautiful whenever I so desire?

    So that a measure of the skill possessed by my mandolin heroes will be magically transferred to me?

    So that I would be filled with the innate "betterness" of the new instrument?
    **********************

    Of these, only the first and fourth are pragmatically reasonable and the third is esthetically reasonable but non-essential. I will grudgingly admit to a touch of the third, but I'm trying to quit... Really! As to playability, my instruments are well set up with low action, no buzz and proper intonation up and down the fretboard.

    But here's what's really odd about my particular case of want vs. need. As of this writing, I've saved almost $7000, specifically for a better mandolin. But now that I can upgrade whenever I feel like it, I find that my obsession to do so has been greatly diminished. Go figure!

    I've resolved to earn a new mandolin by developing competency, accuracy, an ability to play with others without choking, and eventually, increased speed. If I can't or won't make progress towards those goals, there's no reason to spend big bucks.

    Yes, I understand that there are instruments that make one play better just as there are high performance cars that effectively raise a driver to a new level. But I believe that my mandolins are beyond adequate for now and for the immediate future. (That's the rationalization part, in case you hadn't recognized it.)

    So let me close with what I consider to be two truths:


    (1) A well played instrument is better than a poorly played instrument, regardless of its cost.

    (2) The time I spend looking at, thinking/reading about, and window shopping for a more expensive mandolin could be better spend practicing and playing; on the very mandolins that are already here and waiting for me to pay attention to them.

    Thanks for listening to my thoughts. And for dealing with my (parenthetical) writing style. And for giving me the opportunity to vent.

    I feel *SO* much better.

    Plus, it brightens my day to think about the joy that I've given to the professional and amateur psychotherapists among us.


    Yours Sincerely,

    CeeCee
    Oakdale, CT

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  3. #2
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    Default Re: Self-introduction and musings on mandolins and MAS

    Bah humbug -- this isn't a place for talking people out of spending too much money on instruments.

    That's part of the forum rules, isn't it?



    I talked myself up from the Eastman 515 to the 615 after I found a good price on it, and I love the thing. It sounds good (despite my playing ability), it's beautiful, I love the radiused fretboard, and I'm used to the kind-of large neck. Glad you can find the satisfaction in what you've got. For a base mandolin, I love it... though I'm close to talking myself into an electric... and an octave... and one of those RM-1 resonators..

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    Default Re: Self-introduction and musings on mandolins and MAS

    Welcome to the Cafe, and welcome back to the mandolin. You're not alone. I had one mandolin. It turned into four within a year and a half--did I do that??? All are played regularly. I am happy. Life is good.

    My reasons are different than yours--each has a niche. One is great for taking to outdoor gigs and has a pickup, another is perfect for Celtic and playing alone, another is my regular practice mando, another is electric and is just for utter fun while I work up the ability to play jazz mando. That's my excuse! Others?

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    Default Re: Self-introduction and musings on mandolins and MAS

    Would you want three $1000 mandolins, or one $3000 mandolin?

    In my case I would take three $1000 mandolins. Although the $3000 mandolin might have a "better" voice the three $1000mandolins will hae three good, but different voices.

    But on the other hand,,,,,,,.
    Bart McNeil

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    Default Re: Self-introduction and musings on mandolins and MAS

    Continue saving your money. keep playing daily, research in music and tools is fishing for the new and different , expanding your horizons. Eventually all these disparate factors will come together at the right point in time... You'll know when that is. And it sounds like you'll be ready for it........ Play on! R/
    Cheers . . .

  7. #6
    Registered User Mike Snyder's Avatar
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    Default Re: Self-introduction and musings on mandolins and MAS

    At your price point you can get the ONE. One that will make it difficult to play your "lesser' instruments. One to bond with for life. Not immune from MAS am I. I look at everything interesting in the classifieds and I long for an oval-hole A, a Mike Black A. But if it never happens I'll play my love. One mandolin for me, which places me in the minority, but I could never afford more than one GOOD one. Sound and playability are the thing. Snob appeal will fade, at least it has for me. Mine has that most recognisable name on the headstock but my Snark hides it. Folks that ask do it as an afterthought. That said, I've found two inspirations to improved playing, the foremost being playing with good and very good musicians. The other is an upgrade in your instrument. Good luck and happy hunting.
    Mike Snyder

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    Default Re: Self-introduction and musings on mandolins and MAS

    Two things:

    -When comparing guitar and mandolin prices, compare flat top with flat top and carved top with carved top and you'll find the price differences start to make more sense.

    -At +/- $7000, you've saved enough to shop among top quality mandolins. You aren't quite into full "snob appeal" trerritory, but you don't have to compromise quality in that price range (though you must learn to recognize quality for yourself and trust your own judgement.)

    Good luck!
    Last edited by sunburst; Jul-20-2012 at 6:35pm. Reason: speling

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    Registered User Charles E.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Self-introduction and musings on mandolins and MAS

    You can be very happy with the mandolins you have but if you go on a serious journey to explore what five to seven grand will buy you will get to play some VERY nice mandolins and some that will completly blow the Eastmans out of the water. Some you might not like at all but when you get to that price range alot of really nice instruments are available. Good luck with your quest.
    Charley
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    Default Re: Self-introduction and musings on mandolins and MAS

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles E. View Post
    ... a serious journey to explore what five to seven grand will buy you will get to play some VERY nice mandolins and some that will completly blow the Eastmans out of the water.
    A drive of less than 3 hours will let you try the really nice Altman at Lark St. Music in Teaneck, NJ, plus a bunch of other goodies. And if you're going that far, you might as well swing by Mandolin Bros. on Staten Island. Most educational!

    I'm really a "three x $1,000" kind of guy, but that $6,900 Altman is just down the street from my chiropractor! Gotta go check my Lotto ticket...
    - Ed

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    Registered User dcoventry's Avatar
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    Default Re: Self-introduction and musings on mandolins and MAS

    http://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/58261
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    Dear God man, play some of these! I'm a Phoenix owner, but that last one, the Mowry would/could be a life changer.

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    Default Re: Self-introduction and musings on mandolins and MAS

    Good luck, you'll most likely need it to steer clear of full blown MAS. Seriously, have fun and enjoy playing, welcome aboard, please keep your hands and feet in the car at all times.
    PJ
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  13. #12
    Registered User Charles E.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Self-introduction and musings on mandolins and MAS

    This looks like what I was thinking of...

    http://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/58222

    And this....

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    Yum
    Last edited by Charles E.; Jul-21-2012 at 3:51pm. Reason: add spice
    Charley
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    Registered User CeeCee_C's Avatar
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    Default Re: Self-introduction and musings on mandolins and MAS

    Thank you all for your feedback, and even for the suggestions about high(er) end mandolins to consider.

    Re. the suggestions - I guess my point is that I don't want to look at other mandos right now. I want to appreciate what I have and actually spend the time and energy learning to play well enough to justify a better instrument.

    CeeCee

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    Registurd User pjlama's Avatar
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    Default Re: Self-introduction and musings on mandolins and MAS

    Quote Originally Posted by CeeCee_C View Post
    Thank you all for your feedback, and even for the suggestions about high(er) end mandolins to consider.

    Re. the suggestions - I guess my point is that I don't want to look at other mandos right now. I want to appreciate what I have and actually spend the time and energy learning to play well enough to justify a better instrument.

    CeeCee
    Good plan. Please let us know when we can help spend your money, as a group of people Cafe members are great at spending each others dough.
    PJ
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    Default Re: Self-introduction and musings on mandolins and MAS

    I am with the OP on the value of staying with cheaper mandolins. I have bought off the classifieds a LM600, a Kentucky KM850, and a Jade costing me all up just over $2000. All mandolins have a great set up. The voicing on the Jade is extraordinary. The voice on the LM600 has improved by smoothing out the insides of the f-holes and setting up a Cumberland Acoustics bridge. The KM850 has pizazz and is beautifully made and has a different voicing to the other two.

    All play really well. Since my purchases, my playing has improved out of sight. If I had to I would sell the LM600 first. I would miss it though - its blemishes can easily be put aside.

    I have had a John Liddy a-5 mandolin for many which cost me $2800 in 2006. I have since sold it for the price I paid for all three mandolins. I have a Mike Black A-4 mandolin on order. The reason I am getting it is that I have always wanted a Vintage style mandolin but prefer a modern version. When it arrives, I will sell the LM600. Then I will have two really good F5 style and one really good A mandolin.

    I have no intention of entering the $5000-7000 dollar territory for one mandolin even though I have spent nearly that much. I prefer to be able to pick and choose amongst the three I have. Btw the mandolin that Jethro Burns plays in his mandin player books sounds much worse than any of my mandolins. he still managed to get a reasonable sound out of it.
    I am charging ahead with improving my musicianship as top priority.
    Last edited by NG53; Jul-21-2012 at 7:55pm.

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    Default Re: Self-introduction and musings on mandolins and MAS

    First off let me dispell some mis-understandings (IMHO).

    I have come to the conclusion there is no deserving. I will never, ever, push the performance envelope of my Gibson A2, which I bought many years ago when I had measurably less ability. Most half way decent mandolins exceed what I will ever "need" from a player point of view. So, should I never buy another mandolin?

    I have come to the conclusion there is no snob appeal. Most general music audiences can't even identify which instrument is the mandolin, much less if it is a good one, and inside the musical community most folks respond to my playing and my enthusiasm for a particular tune much more than what ever the heck I am playing it on.

    The main motivator of MAS, for all of us I suspect, but for me especially, is that "new mandolin" first date first romance thing. Acquiring a new (or new to you) mandolin, and sitting with it and being in awe, pinching yourself to assure your self it is really true that you -- own -- this, seeing your own hands holding it, playing every tune you know on the thing to hear how it sounds, how it responds to your styles of play, the first time you introduce it to your musician friends, or play it with your group - the first year of romance with a new instrument. Should I only feel that once in my life? Of course not.
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    Registered User Charles E.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Self-introduction and musings on mandolins and MAS

    So let me close with what I consider to be two truths:


    (1) A well played instrument is better than a poorly played instrument, regardless of its cost.

    (2) The time I spend looking at, thinking/reading about, and window shopping for a more expensive mandolin could be better spend practicing and playing; on the very mandolins that are already here and waiting for me to pay attention to them.

    The above is a quote from the OP

    I think CeeCee has his priorities right, a Gibson A-1 and two Eastmans are not too shabby. Those should last a life time. Still it is fun to think about what mandolin one could get with seven grand in the bank.
    I have two very special mandolins that I would never sell but have been thinking about getting an Eastman 305 or 315 for times when I dont want to take them out, ie, the beach or outdoor festival ( where it rains almost every year ) etc, etc. Plus it would give me another sound profile to play with.

    CeeCee, thanks for the post.


    CeeCee
    Oakdale, CT[/QUOTE]
    Charley
    www.southernstringband.net
    www.montgomeryviolins.com

    A bunch of stuff with four strings

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    Default Re: Self-introduction and musings on mandolins and MAS

    Charley -

    Thanks for the support. Just for the record, though? I'm a her, not a him. Bet it was the motorcycle racing thing that gotcha. My dad wanted one of his kids to be a gearhead. Turned out to be me.

    Yours,

    CeeCee

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    Default Re: Self-introduction and musings on mandolins and MAS

    Motorcycles are dangerous
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  21. #20
    Registered User CeeCee_C's Avatar
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    Default Re: Self-introduction and musings on mandolins and MAS

    Yep. They are. But I still race my 1972 Yamaha TD3 and ride my 1978 Ducati 900 on the street. If it's too hot to wear leathers and helmet, it's too hot to ride.

  22. #21
    Registered User mandolirius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Self-introduction and musings on mandolins and MAS

    I marvel at the choices people have now. You can spend a few hundred dollars and get a reliable, decent-sounding instrument. A beginner will have to do some work to do before they can legitimately say the instrument is a limitation.

    When I started playing it was so rare for a decent mandolin to become available that it was sometimes necessary to take advantage of a good opportunity when it came up and trust that you'd eventually play well enough to justify the purchase.

  23. #22
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    Default Re: Self-introduction and musings on mandolins and MAS

    It's never too hot to ride, it's been close to 100 here for weeks and I'm riding a good bit. I brought home the new 848 Street zfighter for the weekend, last weekend I took a new Panigale, my life sucks I'd love to see pics of your Duc. Regarding the whole instrument thing it's so different for all of us that nobody can decide what's right for another, just play as much as you like and enjoy it. Playing mandolin is a Devine pleasure not something to be analyzed to death.
    PJ
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  24. #23
    Henry Lawton hank's Avatar
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    Default Re: Self-introduction and musings on mandolins and MAS

    NOW I understand. You have my wife's female sensibility not the reckless, impulsive, quasi moto male logic that allows us to buy the good stuff without all this regimentation. I keep hearing (not just you)I'll wait until I deserve a really nice mandolin then I can play it so much better that I won't be embarrassed having such a fine axe that I can't play like Chris Thile. Horse Rubbish, for a mandolinist there are few finer things in this life than one of these truly exquisitely crafted mandolins. Life is way too short for you to miss out on owning and playing one of them.
    Deciderius Erasmus "In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is King".

  25. #24
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    Default Re: Self-introduction and musings on mandolins and MAS

    Quote Originally Posted by CeeCee_C View Post
    Charley -

    Thanks for the support. Just for the record, though? I'm a her, not a him. Bet it was the motorcycle racing thing that gotcha. My dad wanted one of his kids to be a gearhead. Turned out to be me.

    Yours,

    CeeCee
    CeeCee, sorry about that! My wife and I both ride cruisers, hers is a Kawasaki Vulcan 900, mine a Yamaha V-Star 950. She is the gearhead in the marrage, my Dad was so happy when we met. I will enjoy hearing more from you on the Cafe in the future.
    Charley
    www.southernstringband.net
    www.montgomeryviolins.com

    A bunch of stuff with four strings

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    Default Re: Self-introduction and musings on mandolins and MAS

    Quote Originally Posted by hank View Post
    ...for a mandolinist there are few finer things in this life than one of these truly exquisitely crafted mandolins...
    Mandolins have their own aesthetic that is beyond the player's ability to produce sound. They also are works of art that display the workmanship of the builder. They are natural history specimens that display the beauty and variety of the natural materials that went into making them. And they are historical artifacts that preserve the genius of design and engineering of the past and present.

    I, too, will never play like Chris Thile, but that is no reason why I shouldn't play a mandolin the Chris Thile would appreciate playing. I'm with Hank and JeffD: the appeal is more than my ability to exceed the limits of my instrument's performance envelope. It is being a part of the music, art, science, engineering, history and camaraderie of Mandolins.
    Ha, ha! keep time: how sour sweet music is,
    When time is broke and no proportion kept!
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