oiling tuner gears

**Bill Foss** · Jul-18-2012, 8:39am

I've got a mandolin from the 1920s or possibly earlier. The tuners are difficult to turn and I've been thinking of putting some WD 40 on them to make them turn easier. Is there any reason why I shouldn't do that? Or is there something better to use?

**John Kasley** · Jul-18-2012, 8:55am

Check here:
http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Musi...geartune1.html
and here:
http://www.lutherie.net/tuner.maintenance.html

Lubrication may not be the answer, or maybe not the whole answer.

**Bill Foss** · Jul-18-2012, 9:05am

Thanks John.

**GarY Nava** · Jul-18-2012, 10:15am

I use solid paraffin wax rubbed on, that way you don't have to worry about any residue being absorbed into the wood/finish.
Cheers Gary

**Rodney Riley** · Jul-18-2012, 10:17am

If there is a bike shop close to you. See if they have "Tri-Flow" lubricant. Was recommended here on another thread. It's a dry lubricant that works real well. If just a lubricant is needed.

**Marty Jacobson** · Jul-18-2012, 10:25am

Originally Posted by Rodney Riley

If there is a bike shop close to you. See if they have "Tri-Flow" lubricant. Was recommended here on another thread. It's a dry lubricant that works real well. If just a lubricant is needed.

Careful with that stuff! It is a dry lubricant when it is dry. When it is sprayed on ... it is liquid silicone! Bad news for any vintage instrument, as it makes future restoration and repair problematic.

If you use any spray-on lubricant (Tri-flow and Silicone Blaster from Home Depot are basically the same thing), I'd spray it onto a Q-tip well away from your instrument (or any stacks of unfinished wood) and then apply it carefully to the gears.

As has been mentioned, though, there are alignment considerations, worn bushings, and other problems which most likely are the culprit. Couldn't hurt to try the easy fix first, though.

**Bill Foss** · Jul-18-2012, 10:27am

Thanks for all the good information guys!

**Pribar** · Jul-18-2012, 2:50pm

I got blasted for suggesting this last time but I always use petroleum jelly as a lube, a little dab in the gears and then wipe off the excess once you have turned em a few times to work it in, I have used this method for about 30 years and have encountered no problems with it as long as you wipe off the excess to prevent it from collecting dust and grit and rejamming your gears.

**Dobe** · Jul-18-2012, 3:43pm

I like this guys site- fellow member Paul H :

http://www.lutherie.net/tuner.maintenance.html

He's a Tri-Flow guy, as am I.

**Rodney Riley** · Jul-18-2012, 7:35pm

Originally Posted by Dobe

I like this guys site- fellow member Paul H :

http://www.lutherie.net/tuner.maintenance.html

He's a Tri-Flow guy, as am I.

Thanks John(the second link you posted) and Dobe

That's where I found out about Tri-Flow. And it's not in a spray can, just a plastic squeeze bottle.

**mandolinlee** · Jul-18-2012, 9:01pm

A lube I have good success with is RemOil by Remington Arms Co. It's a gun lube and contains Teflon.
When changing strings this week one tuner felt tight and gritty as it was turned. A very small drop on a Q-Tip pressed against all the friction points smoothed it right out. Great for case hinges, latches and locks, plus anything else around the house that needs a quality lubricant. Available at Wal*Mart. No financial interest!
Lee

**Paul Hostetter** · Jul-19-2012, 4:37pm

Originally Posted by ArtDecoMandos

Careful with that stuff! It is a dry lubricant when it is dry. When it is sprayed on ... it is liquid silicone! Bad news for any vintage instrument, as it makes future restoration and repair problematic.

No silicones, you must be thinking of something else.

If you use any spray-on lubricant (Tri-flow and Silicone Blaster from Home Depot are basically the same thing), I'd spray it onto a Q-tip well away from your instrument (or any stacks of unfinished wood) and then apply it carefully to the gears.

A) don't get the aerosol, it's really too hard to control. If you read either Frank's or my page (linked above) both show us using droppers; B) a Q-tip (or an application of wax) has no ability to put lubricant where it's needed. Tri-Flow wicks into the important places, the carrier evaporates, and you're left with just the lube.

And again, there are no silicones in Tri-Flow.

As has been mentioned, though, there are alignment considerations, worn bushings, and other problems which most likely are the culprit. Couldn't hurt to try the easy fix first, though.

Just don't use any oil, and certainly nothing with silicones. Tri-Flow is safe.

**Paul Busman** · Jul-19-2012, 5:25pm

I've used this with good, clean results:
http://www.whitelightningco.com/products/easy-lube.htm

The plastic bottle, not the spray for reasons that others have already mentioned. Works great on bikes and all sorts of things that need non-greasy lubrication.

**Paul Hostetter** · Jul-19-2012, 7:54pm

Originally Posted by Paul Busman

I've used this with good, clean results:
http://www.whitelightningco.com/products/easy-lube.htm

The plastic bottle, not the spray for reasons that others have already mentioned. Works great on bikes and all sorts of things that need non-greasy lubrication.

This has several strikes against it, mostly pertaining to what its MSDS lists, and what it doesn't list, such as the ingredients:

All they tell you that's in it is oil, which is precisely what I recommend avoiding. The rest? Your guess. But it's not good enough for me.

And its parent company is Walmart, who I'm personally not too keen on.

**Dave Cohen** · Jul-19-2012, 8:40pm

Actually, they do also tell you that one ingredient is polytetrafluoroethylene, also known as "PTFE", also known as "Teflon". Nevertheless, it doesn't sound like pleasant stuff to me. I'm surprised that they got away with that little disclosure. Like Paul, I'd recommend staying away from that stuff.

The Tri-Flow is available in non-spray form. Any oil, including Tri-Flow, can be a magnet for dirt if applied in excess. And dirt is abrasive, causing wear to your tuners. If you must lubricate your tuner gears, use only one small drop per gear and wipe off any excess.

http://www.Cohenmando.com

**Marty Jacobson** · Jul-19-2012, 8:48pm

Originally Posted by Paul Hostetter

And again, there are no silicones in Tri-Flow.

Paul, thanks for the correction. I for years have assumed it was a "silicone lubricant" since it is sold by McMaster and MSC as a "silicone lubricant". It is in fact a lubricant FOR silicone.... live and learn.

**Paul Hostetter** · Jul-19-2012, 9:53pm

Thanks, Dave, I did neglect to mention PTFE, the substance formerly known as Teflon. It is the magic ingredient in Tri-Flow. I just wish I knew what else was in Magic Lube, and why it's so toxic. I agree, the MSDS reveals disturbingly little. Walmart pull?

My original test case for Tri-Flow is the tuners on my SCGC H-13, dated 5/79. When I strung it up, it was with an antique set of Waverly machines with Handel buttons. A guy in a bike shop back in '79 introduced me to—and convinced me to use—Tri-Flow. One application in 1979 and it still tunes like a dream. One application, still working beautifully after 33 years. And the tuners themselves were pushing 90 or so already.

**Paul Busman** · Jul-20-2012, 5:16am

You need to take the MSDS with a large grain of salt. You're not gonna drink this, after all. Just 8 little drops on the tuner gears, which you'll never actually touch.
Matter of fact, the MSDS for that grain of salt would probably indicate that it could cause fatal hypertension...

**Dave Cohen** · Jul-20-2012, 4:37pm

"You need to take the MSDS with a large grain of salt. You're not gonna drink this, after all......"

If you read the MSDS that Paul posted, you might feel a little foolish. Notice that the principal routes of exposure are inhalation, skin contact, and eye contact. You don't have to drink it or even touch it to be exposed via inhalation; all you have to to is get a whiff of it, something which is highly likely in normal use. Hope you have avoided repeated exposure.

http://www.Cohenmando.com

**brunello97** · Jul-20-2012, 5:40pm

Not to argue with any of the gear-lubricant-experts here, but I regularly read, collate and post dozens and dozens of MSDS sheets both in the lab and in practice. Been doing it for years and years and years. While the content to be included is prescribed there is no particular template for the language being used, some of which may be flammable, innocuous or tacitly deceptive in its own right.

Here for instance is part of the MSDS for TriFlow, the first for "food grade" grease and the second for the teflon lubricant, both of which seem to have been written by a more delicate hand, but a hand which probably doesn't want to get any TriFlow on it either.

Y'all can debate whether the Walmart dudes sound more hazardous. I'll be putting the Triflow on my tuning gears. I wouldn't be putting either on my fish tacos.

Mick

**Tavy** · Jul-21-2012, 2:59am

Originally Posted by brunello97

Here for instance is part of the MSDS for TriFlow, the first for "food grade" grease and the second for the teflon lubricant, both of which seem to have been written by a more delicate hand, but a hand which probably doesn't want to get any TriFlow on it either.

Y'all can debate whether the Walmart dudes sound more hazardous. I'll be putting the Triflow on my tuning gears. I wouldn't be putting either on my fish tacos.

Amen to that.

Reading the Triflow sheet, it did occur to me that good old H2O would have a very similar description

There's an old adage in chemistry, that the "poison's in the dose", not in the chemical make up....

Just saying.... John.

**ash89** · Jul-21-2012, 9:34pm

Originally Posted by Paul Busman

You need to take the MSDS with a large grain of salt. You're not gonna drink this, after all. Just 8 little drops on the tuner gears, which you'll never actually touch.
Matter of fact, the MSDS for that grain of salt would probably indicate that it could cause fatal hypertension...

spare a thought for the innocent bystander..kids, etc.
that may get a face full of the stuff inadvertently...
from what would seem a fairly tame product..

**Paul Busman** · Jul-22-2012, 12:37pm

Originally Posted by ash89

spare a thought for the innocent bystander..kids, etc.
that may get a face full of the stuff inadvertently...
from what would seem a fairly tame product..

The stuff I was recommending comes in a dropper bottle. You put controlled drops of it exactly where you want them. Unless those innocent bystanders lick your mandolin tuners, there isn't any problem.

**Paul Hostetter** · Jul-22-2012, 1:04pm

**Dave Cohen** · Jul-22-2012, 9:53pm

I suspect that the skepticism expressed regarding MSDS sheets has an idealogical component. My intent is to stay away from discussions of idealogy in any public forum. What I can say is that in 30 yrs as a chemistry professor, I did not commonly see MSDS sheets that were misleading. Full disclosure; as an academic physical chemist not involved in synthesis, my safety concerns were focused on elements and pure compounds. None of my work led me to investigate commercial formulations. Nevertheless, my experience was that misleading or slanted information was not common in the MSDS sheets which I encountered.

The statement that "The poison's in the dose, not in the chemical make up...." is nothing if not misleading and out of context. Iirc, the toxic dose of methylmercury is on the order of a few micrograms, while the toxic dose of ethyl alcohol is on the order of many grams. Chemical identity and composition does indeed matter.

http://www.Cohenmando.com