Being a beginner at a jam...

**Marcelyn** · Jul-19-2012, 6:00am

Jack, I got those off of Google Music. The ones I purchased were called Selected Sides and Selected Cuts I think. They were each 4 disk compilations.

**sarai** · Jul-19-2012, 7:22am

Choking on lyrics and crashing a mandolin lead are part of jamming

Thank goodness... Lord knows I choke. Trying to work on my lyric memorization.

Be the bunny.

Good advice..... a bunny suits me. I just like being around the music... I could sit all night and not play a thing and just soak it all in. The few jams I did go to I sort of waited til I was invited.

But all good advice here.... There are a few things that will help me not feel so out of place.

**AlanN** · Jul-19-2012, 7:48am

Originally Posted by Mike Bunting

The key of a song should always be the key that suits the voice of the singer. I don't understand where people get the notion that a given song has a given key. Sing your song where it is comfortable for you.

I agree with this, to a point. Nothing worse than the lead singer struggling to be on pitch. Yet, certain songs work best in a certain key. Thinking of B chord, where there is clearly a vibe that goes along with that key. Tunes like Harvest Time, Loneliness & Desperation, Your Love Is Dying (off the top of my head) - these would lack the oomph and power in another key, imo.

**sarai** · Jul-19-2012, 8:04am

I agree with this, to a point. Nothing worse than the lead singer struggling to be on pitch. Yet, certain songs work best in a certain key. Thinking of B chord, where there is clearly a vibe that goes along with that key. Tunes like Harvest Time, Loneliness & Desperation, Your Love Is Dying (off the top of my head) - these would lack the oomph and power in another key, imo.

This and I think some songs people are accustomed to playing in a certain key on certain songs and you'd thing (especially with less experienced players) that the jam would go better in the key that the musicians had experience/practice in. This is of course less important with a guitar or banjo that you can capo... at least - that was my thought behind trying to stay in a standard key. Nonetheless I could see where a gal like myself could go on a limb and expand my horizons by adapting to some traditionally male songs. But I wouldn't say, take a traditionally B song and move it up or down a 1/2 or whole step simply to "better" suit my voice. I'm not that much of a perfectionist that I would make it harder for the musicians ...

**Patrick Hull** · Jul-19-2012, 8:56am

Just a few thoughts that I have realized after going through what you have described. I was very uptight and nervous. I think part of the problem is that I thought I had to go and hold my own with everyone in the group right off the bat. I now realize that was not realistic and nobody expected it. First, I would look for a jam where the folks are friendly and everyone is welcome. I have been to a few where a lot of people were competitive, and enjoyed putting others down. I would never feel good there in a million years. Second, just go and sit in and watch and be honest that you are learning and try not to get in the way. Join in the fun, but don't feel like you have to "perform." Maybe you can sing and not play. Or maybe you can sing and just lightly strum time on the mando. One thing I did that was pretty dumb. I felt like my best songs were too easy or that I needed to come up with different songs every week. Just have a good song or two, do them and then join in on a few others if you feel you can contribute. It took me forever to realize I didn't have to play on every song. As time goes on, I think you will feel more comfortable and be able to contribute more as you learn more. But if you don't, you should be able to enjoy the music.

**greg_tsam** · Jul-19-2012, 9:16am

Originally Posted by Mike Bunting

The key of a song should always be the key that suits the voice of the singer. I don't understand where people get the notion that a given song has a given key. Sing your song where it is comfortable for you.

Originally Posted by AlanN

I agree with this, to a point. Nothing worse than the lead singer struggling to be on pitch. Yet, certain songs work best in a certain key. Thinking of B chord, where there is clearly a vibe that goes along with that key. Tunes like Harvest Time, Loneliness & Desperation, Your Love Is Dying (off the top of my head) - these would lack the oomph and power in another key, imo.

Last night someone requested Tennessee Waltz. Someone called out B, I said it's usually played in D and we settled on C because B strained the singers voices. Never played it in C but it was fun nonetheless.

**Beanzy** · Jul-19-2012, 9:38am

Sarai I'm at the stage where I'm only just pitching up and singing and it's something I find difficult for me.
What the others said about having the song so embedded is what gets me through.
I also use an old memory trick of having a strong image in my head which I can run as I sing. Pools in a forest joined by the winding pathways that are the instrumental breaks. Each pool has a scene and I run that through then move on, only focussing on the next once I arrive there.
Singing and playing together I find very difficult, but if I run through the mental picture sequence each verse just arrives & gets sung and before I know it I'm at the last verse wishing there was another.

When (not if but when) I fluff the words or forget a line I'll sing about that to cover the tune and the beat.
So "here I'd normally sing about being left all alone" gets the line out of the way and I'll probably remember "without you my dear." by the time I've sung the first bit and end up with "here I'd normally sing, without you my dear." It's all good fun as long as you just keep giving the tune and sing in time, no one's getting hung up on life changing lyrical inspiration from accurately rendered vocals. We've ended up with our own local versions of some songs that way, which can be a laugh & get the listners more engaged that the real thing. Keep it comfortable and focus on the drive and tune, you know the song (because you can sing it to your heart's content at home), so let the lyrics come along if they like.

The first one I did was Peg & Awl because it's so darned simple with just the year & a few other words changing except for the final one.

**JeffD** · Jul-19-2012, 12:37pm

Originally Posted by Patrick Hull

Join in the fun, but don't feel like you have to "perform." .... It took me forever to realize I didn't have to play on every song. .

Two gigantic points.

The jam is for you to contribute to the whole and have a lot of fun making music, not to perform or to show "them" what you got.

And if you don't know a particular tune, sit it out. Sit out a bunch of them, most of them, all of them if you feel you aren't ready to contribute. Don't worry about it, soon enough your itch to play will override your itch to watch and you're off to the races.

**Turnip Mountain Picker** · Jul-19-2012, 3:46pm

Go-jam-and have FUN. Two weeks into a jam and you will wonder why you were so worried. When I first started going to jams, which wasnt very long ago, I had all the same worries and now that I have jammed a lot I look back and I had a blast every time. On song selection, you can memorize a thousand songs and when you get to the jam they probably will not play any of them. If its bluegrass chop along with them, try an easy solo using pentatonic scales or the melody and you will be fine, but most of all HAVE FUN!!!

**JeffD** · Jul-19-2012, 3:50pm

Originally Posted by Turnip Mountain Picker

On song selection, you can memorize a thousand songs and when you get to the jam they probably will not play any of them.

True. Very true. The best way to know what songs to concentrate on is to go to the jam several times and listen to what they like to play.

You are, right now, as prepared as you can be for the jam. Maybe not prepared to take breaks or meaningfully lead a song, but prepared enough to attend and learn and have a ripping good time.

**sarai** · Jul-20-2012, 7:10am

Beanzy

When (not if but when) I fluff the words or forget a line I'll sing about that to cover the tune and the beat.....

That's a good talent for fluff! I tend even in normal conversation not to be very eloquent about making things up on the fly. But If I can just remember the first few words of each verse it usually rolls off. Your technique is something that would be prudent of me to learn. Coz usually if I forget the first few words I forget the whole darn verse.

Go-jam-and have FUN. Two weeks into a jam and you will wonder why you were so worried. When I first started going to jams, which wasnt very long ago, I had all the same worries and now that I have jammed a lot I look back and I had a blast every time. On song selection, you can memorize a thousand songs and when you get to the jam they probably will not play any of them. If its bluegrass chop along with them, try an easy solo using pentatonic scales or the melody and you will be fine, but most of all HAVE FUN!!!

Good advice. Now if I could just find a regular ongoing jam it'd be fantastic.

You are, right now, as prepared as you can be for the jam. Maybe not prepared to take breaks or meaningfully lead a song, but prepared enough to attend and learn and have a ripping good time.

Good advice... helps not to feel the pressure..

**bmac** · Jul-20-2012, 8:38am

I don't think the problem is with the newcomer to a jam, but the jam itself. If the jam is closed to those less experienced then that should be clearly stated. And there should be a beginners session for those less experienced or less familiar with jams.

I had a funny experience at an old time jam mainly for fiddlers. I brought my banjo and a mandolin and had a great time playing along... My wife however pointed out that after playing about a half hour everyone had left except the leader and myself. He was too nice to tell me I was probably throwing the fiddlers off with my playing. But at least I had fun, even if no one else did.

**Turnip Mountain Picker** · Jul-20-2012, 9:31am

http://www.michiganbluegrass.com/mb-jams.html

**sarai** · Jul-20-2012, 10:19am

Thanks for that - I've seen that. At least one I wanted to attend from that site was running anymore - but I found out it was moved to Woldumar Nature Center.

I had a funny experience at an old time jam mainly for fiddlers. I brought my banjo and a mandolin and had a great time playing along... My wife however pointed out that after playing about a half hour everyone had left except the leader and myself. He was too nice to tell me I was probably throwing the fiddlers off with my playing. But at least I had fun, even if no one else did.

NICE!

**Bertram Henze** · Jul-20-2012, 12:40pm

Originally Posted by bmac

I had a funny experience at an old time jam mainly for fiddlers. I brought my banjo and a mandolin and had a great time playing along... My wife however pointed out that after playing about a half hour everyone had left except the leader and myself. He was too nice to tell me I was probably throwing the fiddlers off with my playing. But at least I had fun, even if no one else did.

This is definitely one strategy to keep off anxiety I frequently use - just switch to bloodyminded mode.

**JeffD** · Jul-20-2012, 2:25pm

Originally Posted by bmac

If the jam is closed to those less experienced then that should be clearly stated. And there should be a beginners session for those less experienced or less familiar with jams.

"But this is a thing more ardently to be wished than seriously to be expected."

The truth is people just get together and play and other people see a group of people over there who just got together to play and want to join in and play. And with luck someone in the group, says, as Briscoe Darlin said "Jump in where you can and hang on." While such a system has its problems, they are the normal social issues we all deal with. People of good will and good manners can sort this out.

To my way of thinking it is much better than the "organized" or "moderated" jams, or even the "slow" jams, where everyone gets to play and everyone gets to endure someone elses playing, and everyone gets a turn, nobody plays too fast and nobody plays too slow and spontenaity and excitement are kept to a minimum.

But this might just be a personality thing. I am much more accommodating when there is nobody there telling me I have to accommode.

**sarai** · Jul-20-2012, 2:29pm

While such a system has its problems, they are the normal social issues we all deal with. People of good will and good manners can sort this out.

Well said

**Ed Goist** · Jul-20-2012, 3:02pm

Great stuff in this thread.
Just one thing to add...Something that really helps beginners feel more comfortable is having the best player at the jam also be the most accommodating to beginners. I am fortunate to have experienced this and it is wonderful.
I say this because I am sure that many of you reading this are the baddest cats at your respective jams...You can set the tone.

**sarai** · Jul-20-2012, 3:08pm

Ed Goist - you are in Northeast Ohio. Maybe I'll see you at a Jam or Festival sometime!

**Mike Bunting** · Jul-20-2012, 3:41pm

Originally Posted by AlanN

I agree with this, to a point. Nothing worse than the lead singer struggling to be on pitch. Yet, certain songs work best in a certain key. Thinking of B chord, where there is clearly a vibe that goes along with that key. Tunes like Harvest Time, Loneliness & Desperation, Your Love Is Dying (off the top of my head) - these would lack the oomph and power in another key, imo.

Only if the singer is capable of singing in that key. Those kind of songs are going to sound worse if they are sung out of tune than they would if the singer chose a suitable key for their voice.

**jackmalonis** · Jul-20-2012, 7:57pm

Since I'm new to jams too, is it acceptable to sit in and chop along to a song and add some improv lead if you get the nod... Even if you don't know the song??
Or are the "motifs" and themes of the melody usually pretty important?

**SincereCorgi** · Jul-20-2012, 8:42pm

Originally Posted by jackmalonis

Since I'm new to jams too, is it acceptable to sit in and chop along to a song and add some improv lead if you get the nod... Even if you don't know the song??
Or are the "motifs" and themes of the melody usually pretty important?

It all depends on the jam... I'd say that what you're proposing sounds totally appropriate for the vast majority of public jams. The exceptions being 1) big festival type-jams where little bluegrass cells coalesce, some of which cells will have very strictly defined ideas about participation and 2) Irish, where most people just want you to play the tune over and over. Just don't be a jerk and it should be fine.

(As a postscript: lower your expectations, musically. Most music at public jams doesn't sound great, but it's a good place to learn a lot of participation skills and get over nerves.)

**Ed Goist** · Jul-20-2012, 9:00pm

Do no harm.

**jackmalonis** · Jul-20-2012, 9:31pm

Originally Posted by SincereCorgi

It all depends on the jam... I'd say that what you're proposing sounds totally appropriate for the vast majority of public jams. The exceptions being 1) big festival type-jams where little bluegrass cells coalesce, some of which cells will have very strictly defined ideas about participation and 2) Irish, where most people just want you to play the tune over and over. Just don't be a jerk and it should be fine.

(As a postscript: lower your expectations, musically. Most music at public jams doesn't sound great, but it's a good place to learn a lot of participation skills and get over nerves.)

Ah, thanks so much. Yeah I'm waiting to get back down to Austin to go to my first jam, so I had no idea what to expect. I'm pretty new when it comes to the mando, but they look like so much fun.

And, exactly I don't want to be the jerk ruining the regulars' good time with my ignorance

**Gerry Hastie** · Jul-21-2012, 2:39am

I echo Ivan's thinking entirely. I still remember being a beginner and where I relied on enthusiasm only matched by a willingness to humiliate myself (someone else said that on the cafe once - great quote)! Dix Bruce has a great book available from his website - the mandolin version of the parking lot pickers series. It's got the basic melody tabbed out to loads of really common bluegrass song repertoire and comes with a CD with a verse and chorus played to help with figuring out the melody. The book advises on different keys suitable to either male or female voices (in general) and lists artists who have recorded the songs and a discography so you can check it out.