Being a beginner at a jam...

[sarai]

I have a few questions. Hopefully you aren't tired of my questions yet.

1.) How do I fit in as a beginner? Without getting on the nerves of those who have a hard time tolerating beginners? Because I've seen them sleuthing even on this site mentioning their intolerance of beginners.

2.) What are some songs that are good to learn (male or female vocal or instrumental) that are played often at jams. It would be prudent of me to learn the most popular songs because at this point my goal is pretty much to follow along with the chords. And I'd rather review as many as possible ahead of time. (I am already building a repretoire but more is good)

3.) In the event that I may try to take the singing lead on something I am slowly building a repretoire of lady songs mainly from Rhonda Vincent, AKUS, Cox Family. It seems like the jams I have been to so far, no one new these tunes. Are there any lady songs that are well known? I'd rather not have the entire responsibility for carrying the song yet - and learn something that others might know.

4.) Other ettiquette tips?



My current repretoire...

Fiddle Tunes
- Salt Creek
- Blackberry BLossom
- Cripple Creek
- Traveler
- Roanoke (well, trying, long way to go)

Lyrical lady songs that I sing
- Kentucky Borderline (Rhonda Vincent)
- Is the Grass Any Bluer (Rhonda Vincent)
- Lonesome Wind Blues (Rhonda Vincent)
- Jolene (Dolly, Rhonda Vincent) , I play on guitar usually
- Everytime You Say GOodbye (AKUS)
- Ghost In This House (AKUS), I play on guitar usually
- Atlanta (AKUS) mainly play this on guitar
- Standing By the Bedside of a Neighbor (Cox Family)
- Everybody Wants to Go To Heaven (AKUS & Cox Family) mainly play this on guitar
- Black & White (Cherryholmes)
- How Long (Cherryholmes)

Man Songs (learned because someone I know sings this at some jams)
- Bad Day in Akron (Don Rigsby)
- Big Spike Hammer (Osborne Brothers)
- Fair & Tender Ladies (Osborne Brothers)
- Nellie Kane (Hotrize)
- Teardrops in my eyes (The Grascals)

Keep in mind - most of these lyrical songs I couldn't pick lead on yet, I just play rhythm and sing melody or sing harmony for the guy songs. ALl the fiddle tunes I can pick.

[CeeCee_C]

Great question, Sarai!

I have had a number of opportunities to attend jams and have gotten cold feet each time and ended up staying home.

While I'm sure that the best solution would be for me to just go once and listen, I'm extremely shy in new situations and haven't done so.

I'm looking forward to some responses.

Thanks for putting the question out there.

CeeCee
Oakdale, CT

[sarai]

I think I posted in the wrong topic though - I wonder if an admin can move it!? oops.

[Bertram Henze]

One of the main purposes of life is to approach the monstrous shadows looming above us and find out they are cast by tiny plastic action figures.
- going there and sitting with your instrument, maybe hardly playing at all, and listening a lot is better than not going,
- playing a little quiet background chop is better than not to play at all,
- accepting the nod on the only tune you can play melody on and playing it as a solo is better than 100% chopping,
....and so on; there is no big bang. Allow yourself to develop, and other players will allow it, too.

[pickloser]

Excellent! IME no one is more welcome at a jam than a new singer. You might learn Little Cabin Home on the Hill (and just about any other Cabin song, like Blueridge Cabin Home), I Wonder Where You Are Tonigt, Love Please Come Home, When My Blue Moon Turns to Gold, On and On, Lonesome Road Blues, just about any 3 chord song. Most regulars will know them. But you already have some songs that can be easily called, if you just know your key, provide some info, and know how to kick it off at the tempo you like. For example, not everyone may know Ky Borderline, but iirc that's a 3 chord song. You could scope out the alpha banjo picker, and if he or she knows it ask him to kick it off for you, and that's all that will be necessary. If no one looks likely, then stand in the circle chopping and looking bashful, but hopeful. When you get asked to sing one, call out your song, say the key, say it's "1, 4, 5" or 3 chords in A, or whatever, kick it off like you know what you're doing, and sing with enthusiasm. Try to signal the changes to the 4 chord with a strong 17 chop. Have another song to sing when it comes back to you. Once you get your feet wet at this kind of thing (and it is REALLY FUN) try to learn songs in various keys. At many jams, the players like to do a bunch of tunes/songs in G/C and then put the cheaters on and move up to A/D. They'll move it on up to B, after tiring of A/D, upon request.

Oh yeah...be sure and dole out breaks after each chorus. If there are lots who want to take a lead, then run 'em together. Make eye contact and raise your eyebrows, and the potential break taker will either give you a nod or shake it off. Look around for people looking eager or hopeful. It's not hard, once you've done it a few times.

Another oh yeah...the fiddle tunes are gonna be problematic, if you don't have the speed yet. If you call Salt Creek and kick it off at your speed, there may be looks of dismay, and if you let someone else kick it off, then you will not be able to keep up. And, imo, you're never going to get a random group to play Everytime You Say Goodbye. Many of the tunes you listed are better suited for a small jam of folks you know or who are interested on working on some songs/tunes, rather than an open jam.

It really is fun. Enjoy!

[sarai]

One of the main purposes of life is to approach the monstrous shadows looming above us and find out they are cast by tiny plastic action figures.
- going there and sitting with your instrument, maybe hardly playing at all, and listening a lot is better than not going,
- playing a little quiet background chop is better than not to play at all,
- accepting the nod on the only tune you can play melody on and playing it as a solo is better than 100% chopping,
....and so on; there is no big bang. Allow yourself to develop, and other players will allow it, too.

Noted - good advice

no one is more welcome at a jam than a new singer

Sweet - trouble is singing songs they will know. But if I can learn the man-songs I can sing harmonies to about anything which I enjoy.

You might learn Little Cabin Home on the Hill (and just about any other Cabin song, like Blueridge Cabin Home), I Wonder Where You Are Tonigt, Love Please Come Home, When My Blue Moon Turns to Gold, On and On, Lonesome Road Blues

Thank you - I will likely review these and download. Actually I think I have I wonder where you are tonight already in my bill monroe anthology. Maybe a few others too.

At many jams, the players like to do a bunch of tunes/songs in G/C and then put the cheaters on and move up to A/D. They'll move it on up to B, after tiring of A/D, upon request.

This is a good tip. I started to pick up on this at the last Jam I went to but this explains it better. And I can prepare better - knowing that and not ask for a song in some random key that they haven't started jamming in yet.

And, imo, you're never going to get a random group to play Everytime You Say Goodbye. Many of the tunes you listed are better suited for a small jam of folks you know or who are interested on working on some songs/tunes, rather than an open jam.

I was afraid of that - I tend to be drawn to songs with more complicated chord structures sometimes too which makes things more difficult.

Any more standards I should consider from anyone? These tips are all great too - T H A N K Y O U

[John Duncan]

I was afraid of that - I tend to be drawn to songs with more complicated chord structures sometimes too which makes things more difficult.

I wouldn't worry about that too much. Just have your mental divisions of " ok I am learning this song to be able to jam" and " I am learning this song for my own personal enjoyment/education".

Also, the songs being called will depend on the jam you go to. Learning standards are a part of it but, there will be regional standards as well. Just going to a jam is huge for your personal development. If you can go to a regular jam that is huge too.

When I was just beginning on the mandolin, I would take my mando to jams and only play rhythm and maybe sing. You will learn a lot about rhythm that way. Buddy up to the bass player and figure out how you can make a rhythm section.

[sarai]

figure out how you can make a rhythm section.

What do you mean? Like buddying up at the event? Or am I overthinking this?

[John Duncan]

Just relating what I do at jams. I seek out the bass player or guitar player and stand next to them. I listen to how or where they are playing on the 1 and 3 beats. If they are pushing beat, I will chop right in the center of the beat to compliment the song. Likewise, if they are playing in the center of the beat then I can push a little. If they increase in volume at certain dynamic points, I'll back off so the song doesn't get sloppy.
These are all things you'll figure out as you attend jams more frequently and play with more ppl and in different situations. So much of it, imho, is listening to others and figuring out how to make them sound the best.

[sarai]

jhduncan - gotcha - copy
This make sense.

[onassis]

Pete Wernick has a great list of popular BG jam tunes on his website
http://www.drbanjo.com/pdf/bluegrass-jam-favorites.pdf

I'd pick a few, give 'em a listen on Spotify or some such, and then learn the ones that catch your fancy. Chordally, they'll all be pretty simple. Lyrics are usually pretty straight forward as well.

Also, I would advise not limiting yourself to "lady songs". I've yet to meet anyone who was concerned about gender-matching singer and lyrics. Or, you could subtly switch any identifying words (he/she, his/hers).

If I were you, I'd dive right in. You already show the two most important traits - 1) a desire to learn, and 2) a willingness to fit in. The ones who cause problems more typically want it to be about them, instead of the whole-jam experience. I think you'll do fine.

[Alex M]

I agree with Mitch, don't worry about only singing lady songs. Especially in folk & bluegrass there's a long tradition (very prevalent in the Carter Family) of a woman singing a song that's written from a man's perspective.

[greg_tsam]

Lyrical Lady songs and Man songs. hahaha... Good one. You probably weren't trying to be funny but I thought it was.. No one has said this yet but try searching this forum for answers to your questions in addition posting here. We'll answer your posts happily but there are so many other posts you can benefit from if you get familiar with the search function.

Like "top songs in a jam" or "beginner at a jam" or "jam etiquette". That last one will yield really cool research material with lots of opinionated answers.

Here's over 8 pages of threads on etiquette. http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/se...archid=2543977

[Miss Grimke]

I sat in on a jam for more than a year before I figured out how to lead a song successfully, but once I did, it has become easy to add more songs and very much fun!
What I learned:
1) Learn a simple song you love love love, 3 chords, 3 verses, and play it a million times at home, singing loud loud loud. It doesn't have to be a song that everyone/anyone knows but it helps a lot if it's a song with wide intrinsic appeal. I once practiced a song I loved (Don't Neglect the Rose) and after singing it a million times I decided, yuck, that's just too sappy. I have adapted man songs myself, though I think there are already a plenty man songs sung, especially those equating horses or dogs with women, like that stupid Sioux City Sue. You could even do a simple Beatles tune for starters, which would be fun with a bluegrass slant. Not that I've tried that. Just an idea.
2) Sit close to a good player, a leader. All jams have a them. If he/she can follow you there's better chance the rest of the group can. Enlist this person as a buddy if you can.
3) Be big. Sit up and forward and be loud. My jam is usually dominated by guys, very generous bunch, but sometimes it is hard for them to "see" women (crazy, I know). (I learned from being in a male-dominated career: Take up space!)
Carry on!

[sarai]

Lyrical Lady songs and Man songs. hahaha...

hehe yeah it was a little tongue-in-cheek.

but there are so many other posts you can benefit from if you get familiar with the search function.

I did read through some of those, didn't see the exact info I was looking for but likely I missed some or something. I did a search on etiquette but I think I spelled it wrong, ha. I'll have to read through more.

I agree with Mitch, don't worry about only singing lady songs. Especially in folk & bluegrass there's a long tradition (very prevalent in the Carter Family) of a woman singing a song that's written from a man's perspective.

Duly noted... I worry I'll be bothersome by changing the keys but I guess most would be able to adapt to fairly standard songs quite easily.

You already show the two most important traits - 1) a desire to learn, and 2) a willingness to fit in.

Well thank you

Miss Gimke - thanks particularly for your perspective. I wish I new more ladies in bluegrass.

[Mike Bunting]

Duly noted... I worry I'll be bothersome by changing the keys but I guess most would be able to adapt to fairly standard songs quite easily.

The key of a song should always be the key that suits the voice of the singer. I don't understand where people get the notion that a given song has a given key. Sing your song where it is comfortable for you.

[Bill Baldridge]

Lots of good feedback to consider, and as you can read, there is no one answer. My experience is that most jams are by nature pretty conservative. By that I mean that if it is a regular jam there is often almost a set of songs that the group plays on a regular basis. If you want to fit into that group, you best learn their set of songs. If it is a jam of people who essentially don't know each other, the group will either find a level of playing that includes everyone or people begin to drift off to find something that better suits their needs. If you approach what looks to be a jam and they all lock their knees together, you have probably found a group of people who play together elsewhere as well and they are more interested in an audience than having a newcomer, especially a beginner mess up their "groove". I have found that most people in a jam, with a few blessed exceptions, don't enjoy playing songs in public they can't play very well, so be careful before introducing your own composition or non-stand tunes with unpredictable chord changes, pauses, mid-song key changes, etc. My advice is, if they are open to you, to always jump into a jam of players who are better than you. Good players can carry you and your song, even if you can't.

Have fun, or why do it?

[sarai]

Good players can carry you and your song, even if you can't.

Thank you I'm banking on this... ha I can carry myself at home but I tend to freeze up in front of everyone and do everything wrong.

[JeffD]

1.) How do I fit in as a beginner? Without getting on the nerves of those who have a hard time tolerating beginners? Because I've seen them sleuthing even on this site mentioning their intolerance of beginners.

Go and listen. Just listen. pick up on how things go - is there a leader, do they take turns on leading, is it orthodox to BG or not, or what ever genre it is, just listen. Musicians love to be heard.

You have to consider the whole thought - its intolerance of beginners who want the pre-existing, long standing, been playing together for ever jam to change or do a whole bunch of things for their sake. As long as you see it as you are trying to fit into their jam, things will be fine.

A jam buddy of mine, a very gentle soul, once gave this sound advice - "Be the bunny, all ears and a tiny mouth, not the alligator, all mouth and no ears at all."

Be the bunny.

2.) What are some songs that are good to learn (male or female vocal or instrumental) that are played often at jams. It would be prudent of me to learn the most popular songs because at this point my goal is pretty much to follow along with the chords. And I'd rather review as many as possible ahead of time. (I am already building a repretoire but more is good)

The very best way to get this information is to listen at the jam. I used to take notes on index cards. Also after the jam meet up with folks and ask about what tunes, or tune books, or lists of tunes they might use. There may be a tune list for that particular jam. Listen and learn.

3.) In the event that I may try to take the singing lead on something I am slowly building a repretoire of lady songs mainly from Rhonda Vincent, AKUS, Cox Family. It seems like the jams I have been to so far, no one new these tunes. Are there any lady songs that are well known? I'd rather not have the entire responsibility for carrying the song yet - and learn something that others might know.

At least at the beginning, I would try and follow what ever tunes they do. If you are invited to lead a tune or song, at first I would pick one you have heard at previous sessions that nobody has done yet. Once you are a regular, you can bring in the stuff you want to do. Remember, the jam is about playing together, not showing them how you can play. (My opinion.)

4.) Other ettiquette tips?

Be the bunny.

[Marcelyn]

One thing I used to do was take a little recording device to the jam so I could practice the tunes later at home. At first, it will seem like an impossibel feat to learn all the songs that come up, but in a few weeks, you'll start getting a handle on the favorites, and in a few months, you'll know most of the jam member's regular tunes.
If you want to learn the standards, I'd download a bunch of Stanley Brothers, Monroe, Doc Watson, etc.
If you try out one of your songs, you'll be able to gage pretty easily whether it's a keeper. someone will probably ask you to do that one again if it fit the group well. Soon, you'll have your own set of regular tunes that newcomers to the jam are requesting, recording, and practicing at home.
Oh, and I was really surprised to see how affordable it is to pull together a library of the standards. Especially the Stanley Brothers--the compilations I got have nearly 100 tunes and were around the cost of one CD.

[CeeCee_C]

Thanks, all -

Good advice, though it'd be tough to apply all of it at one time.

First things first. There's a BG jam every other Tuesday night. I'll be there next time; with my mando.

If I don't bring my instrument I can't play.

If I don't go, I can't learn.

Maybe people have some suggestions about the "choke" factor? I can practice a tune at home until I've got it down really well, but then I play it in front of someone else...

There's a piece of advice about relaxing when speaking in public; imagine your audience in their underwear (or less). That's not really my style, though.

I'd be interested in knowing how others with stage fright managed and overcame it.

Apropos of nothing, since I could just as easily look it up, is underwear the plural of underwear? :-)

CeeCee

[Mike Snyder]

Choking on lyrics and crashing a mandolin lead are part of jamming. Nobody who jams is immune to the scary parts, at least early on. Learn a couple of songs that are universal bluegrass standards and have easy lyrics. Some jams are more welcoming than others. I usually do not stay around if I'm getting the stinkeye, but sometimes I do, and I ALWAYS feel better about it when I stick with it. There's someone at that jam who will be supportive. You're very fortunate to have the opportunity to jam so frequently. I'm lucky to do one a month, and although bluegrass really isn't my thing these days, I gladly drive 1 1/2 hour or more,one way, to jam with 'grassers. That's covering the corners of four states. Old-time and ITM are more scarce, but more beloved.

[JeffD]

I have been jamming for many years. Not so much bluegrass, but old time and fiddle tunes and Irish traditional etc. etc. and I am still not over the stage fright.

The difference between fright and excitement is nonexistant. It just depends on the outcome you are visualizing. If you are visualizing a crash and burn you feel fright. And if you visualize applause and acceptance and smiles all around you will feel excitement, and it feels exactly the same.

I would not want to lose one bit of the excitement I feel walking into a jam with some special technique to get rid of stage fright. Bring it on, I want the full measure, the full rush.

And it generally goes well.

[jackmalonis]

Oh, and I was really surprised to see how affordable it is to pull together a library of the standards. Especially the Stanley Brothers--the compilations I got have nearly 100 tunes and were around the cost of one CD.

Where did you find the compilations? I'm basically in the same situation as Sarai here.

I'm the new guy looking to play at some jams in Austin, and I'm plenty comfortable improvising, but not very well versed as far as bluegrass standards go...

[Ivan Kelsall]

Intolerance of beginers at a jam session is something i find absurd. ALL the players were beginers once & most likely had been 'tolerated' at some point & should be considerate of others in their turn. Sari - for my part,looking at your repertoir,i wish you were 3000 miles closer. I used to freeze when it came to jamming when i got started on banjo,& any intolerance by others would have made me pack up & leave.Fortunately in the UK,there weren't that many (if any) at that time (mid '60'),who could play any better than me,so mostly i was ok. I think the best strategy is to stand back & watch what's going on for a while,don't dive in with both feet.See what comes up & think about what YOU can add in terms of singing a song.If it's a regular jam session,get a feel for the style of the music they're playing ie. - is it all Bluegrass,or is there some Newgrass/Folk/Old Timey music going on as well. As a singer,you should be well appreciated IMHO. There's lots of pickers who don't sing - that's a true gift on it's own,
Ivan