Beyond Basic Chopping - How to not hit those dead strings?

[sarai]

So I have the basic chopping down but I'm starting to get into the rhythms but I'm having a hard time not hiting the dead strings.

I do fine when I simply keep my hand going in a downward motion just on the off beat (but then I look like a robot). So I am really only feeling the rhythm of the off-beat.

(Rest - Chop - Rest - Chop)

When I start to get into it I want my hand keeping time on the downbeat even when I am not playing (as if I was strumming a guitar).

(SilentDownBeat - Chop - SilentDownBeat - Chop)

Except, I have less time to get my hand back up this way, so my precision is off and I have a hard time keeping my hand from hitting that bottom string on my way back up (ie: C chord where the e strong is dead).

Any tricks for keeping your hand going in a solid groove without hitting strings unintentionally?

[Fred Keller]

Umm...don't? Sorry to be facetious. Most chopping I've done or seen doesn't feature any kind of silent down beat. The premise being that any motion not used to make effective sound is wasted motion. Economy rules. I usually just play a mental beat in my head and let my hand hit the 2 and 4.

That being said, perhaps consider a tiny "bob" of the hand instead of a full silent strum. The less work you have to do playing music, the better off you'll be. Think about getting to the point where it's so automatic that you don't need the extra silent strum. The tendons you save will be your own

Of course all bets are off and all options open when you are attempting rhythms other than the 2-4 chop. Good luck!

[sarai]

Thanks Fred. I think the "bob" is actually what I am going for but it was difficult to describe. But the warning about unnecessary motion is helpful. I still have the problem of not hitting those open strings on my up stroke... Perhaps its just something that will come with practice. I just can't get through a song without sounding sloppy. I wonder if others will notice it when I am jamming or if its just exaggerated when I am playing alone?

[SincereCorgi]

Some teachers are really emphatic about keeping the hand moving through all four beats in order to keep a certain feel, so a lot of players will very lightly hit the G string or (G and D strings) on the on-beat. I do this myself, but I have seen too many great players that, like Fred said, don't bother with a 'ghost' stroke on 1 and 3 to think it's all that important.

Your chop might sound sloppy because the hand has no place to anchor or brush a finger, so it just takes a lot of repetitions to learn the distances. If you're worried about it, your brain is probably already starting to fix it.

[sarai]

Well that's encouraging. I'll keep practicing. Nervous about jamming...

[Chip Booth]

I (and I think most good players) keep my hand in a fairly constant 1/8th note up/down motion regardless of whether I am playing chops or shorter strings of notes. This keeps the hand loose and creates a basic muscle memory that allows switching between faster notes and longer notes without the need to dramatically change muscle movements. I often add a silent down beat, or maybe note so silent. I also sometimes "chug", by playing relatively quiet, muted eight notes and letting only the chop ring out. And like Fred, sometimes, I only chop cleanly, and don't play any other notes at all.

As for issues hitting the other strings, I think you just need to be aware (which you clearly are) and stay focused on practicing. The issue sounds like you are in the process of gaining muscle control for the basic picking motion. This takes a little time, and it is amazing how unnatural it can seem at first, and how incredibly natural it can become in a short time. If it doesn't clear up in a relatively short period of time try to find a teacher or at least a good player to look at your technique in person and assess what is happening. Posting a video of your right hand is another option.

I feel that a loose wrist is key to the chopping motion, and a hint of a snap to the wrist, similar to flicking water of you hands, is part of the motion for me.

[sarai]

I (and I think most good players) keep my hand in a fairly constant 1/8th note up/down motion regardless of whether I am playing chops or shorter strings of notes. This keeps the hand loose and creates a basic muscle memory that allows switching between faster notes and longer notes without the need to dramatically change muscle movements.

I've been doing much better at this now that I am anchoring my right not, not only while picking, but while chopping. I find it's easy to keep this ghost rhthym now without that unnecessary extra motion....

[JeffD]

Just reading this for the firs time. Mighten you use a closed position C chord at those moments?

[sarai]

You mean by popping up on the 5th fret? I haven't tried it - but I should try it. I have been having a bit more luck by anchoring my wrist though so that is good atleast and the issue occurs more than with just the C so I guess it's good to learn the control.

[SincereCorgi]

I have been having a bit more luck by anchoring my wrist though...

You're using the term 'anchor' a lot, and I think most players chop with a floating hand (even if they anchor when they play melody). A chop requires some mass behind it, in the form of your hand and forearm, and if you're anchored, your range of motion is too constrained to give it a real thwack. You might go over to YouTube and watch the chopping of some players you admire, then try to copy their posture. Also, you don't necessarily need to hit the E string. A lot of people use three-string chord shapes for chopping, which opens up a little headroom for the soloists.

[sarai]

Also, you don't necessarily need to hit the E string. A lot of people use three-string chord shapes for chopping, which opens up a little headroom for the soloists.

I'm struggling with being accurate enough not to hit the e string when it is not required. I'm trying to find this balance of giving my hand/wrist a frame of reference so I don't go to far on my strum - but not so much that I lose volume. I'll practice a bit later and post it.

[sarai]

NEW QUESTION TO CONTINUE THIS DISCUSSION
SO - I've been working on this but after being at a bluegrass festival this past weekend I learned that my chops have too much chord in them. I'm really struggling to get the perfect barking sound. One challene I have is that when I lift my fingers of the strings I get new notes, like if I were to pull off, except I am getting the open string pitch - louder than I am comfortable with. So if I am fingering the G chord for example, I lift on the down beat and will hear the open strings resonate. So my chop starts sounding like a chop - waaa - chop - waaa if that makes sense. HELP ME WITH THE CHOP CHORD IT"S KILLING ME@! ha

[Beanzy]

It's really just a clamp-release pressure rather than lifting the fingers off. The string is almost fretted the whole time.
Maybe think of it as being usng the finger bones to make the string contact the wood of the fretboard. Then release the pressure so it's just the pad of skin in contact with the string and wood. Make sure you have the finger pad between the frets rather than too near them. The finger pad is your damper to stop any string to fret buzzing or ringing of the actual chord note. So you need a good pad contact, not just the finger tip (unless they're like my elephant feet finger-tips)

There should only be one sound on the off-beat until you get really into fancy effects with the chops. So I think your pick and release timing may be a bit out. The pick stroke should be just a nano-smidgin before you let up on the fretting pressure, so close you can almost say it's simultaneous. But if you're going to be out, the order should always be pick/release and never the other way. Once again don't let go just un-clench the pressure. If you get string rattling to begin with you can work that out by lifting just a twitch more on whichever finger is the offending one. They won't all be at fault so look in detail at how they release, there'll always be one that comes up slower then the rest and just knowing which one will get you compensating so they work closer together.

[robert.najlis]

Sounds like you are not fully deadening the strings. You want to pull off them so that your fingers just rest on top and prevent the strings from vibrating more. So you want to quickly release to that point. Kind of fully on to fully deadening in one quick motion.
I'm not sure if that was what you were looking for, hopefully it is helpful...

[sarai]

I've tried some of these - seems to be helping. I just have to concentrate a lot until its natural.

think of it as being usng the finger bones to make the string contact the wood of the fretboard

this was particularly helpful