Revelations to a string cleaning freak

[Bertram Henze]

This is a story for all who like brilliantly spiky ringing roundwound sound:

I used to apply Dr. Duck's on my OM strings after playing, until I ran out of the stuff and my dealer had run out, too. I then switched to Dunlop 65 (ordered 5 bottles to save on shipping costs). I thought it was even better because there was much more black stuff coming off the strings upon cleaning them. Lately, three things happened:
- I ran out of Dunlop 65
- the dealer had Dr. Duck's again
- viewing my older videos, I noticed that my instrument seemed to sound brighter then than it did today; in fact, my OM sounded more and more dull to me despite all the cleaning and I thought of changing strings prematurely.

Then I started using Dr. Duck's again and WHOA! suddenly my strings sounded like I changed them today! I seemed to hold a whole new instrument in my hands.
Now, thinking about this conundrum, I came up with the following explanation:
Dunlop 65 is so aggressive that it not only removes sweat, fat and dirt but also eats away at the metal surfaces themselves, thus removing one kind of residue but creating a different kind of residue on the way (the black stuff).

Bottom line: if your string cleaner isn't getting you anywhere, try another.

[Mandobart]

Just be glad you don't have to clean rosin off your strings.....and soundboard...and bow.

[Ivan Kelsall]

From Mandobart - "Just be glad you don't have to clean rosin off your strings.....and soundboard...and bow ". .
Well,it's up to you how you play your mandolin. We manage quite well using a pick (well,some of us do !). Joking apart - keeping my strings clean is something i always do.I've always stayed away from commercial products such as the Dunlop 65 cleaner/ Fast Frets etc. I've found that a wipe over with a clean cotton cloth (old hankie) takes most of the crud off.Then i wipe the strings over lightly with a cloth slightly dampened with 3-In-One oil & then i wipe it off thoroughly. I'd certainly go with Bertram's recommendation on Dr Ducks if i was looking for such a product. It seems as though it does 'something' good,
Ivan

[Bertram Henze]

It seems as though it does 'something' good

Smells nicer, too; quoting Gandalf: Always follow your nose

[Tim2723]

This is just a gut reaction, off the top of my head, and based on no scientific findings whatsoever, but I think any solvent that would dissolve away metals at room temperature would be something to avoid. If Dunlop 65 actually 'eats away at the metal', would you want it on your skin? Conversely, if it actually did that I should think you'd discover it through raw, bleeding fingers first.

[Bertram Henze]

If Dunlop 65 actually 'eats away at the metal', would you want it on your skin? Conversely, if it actually did that I should think you'd discover it through raw, bleeding fingers first.

Most metal polishing products take away some off the metal surface, but do not instantly damage your skin (you're well advised to wash your hands after using them, though).
Come to that, water lets metal crumble to rust, but you drink it...

[Tim2723]

Yeah, but metal polishes work by abrasion, not dissolution (well, there are a couple that work by redox reactions, but those aren't actually polishes). Water rusting metal is a relatively long process (as the decay of metals goes). Aqua regia will do the deed on gold itself, but don't touch it. Hydroflouric acid isn't sweet tea either. At any rate, if you have a liquid that dissolves metal, watch out.

(BTW old friend, teasing one another is fun, but we should quit now lest we suggest unwise actions to others.)

[EarlG]

Talk to me when it keeps mandolin A strings sounding good.

[hank]

Bertram is you Dr. Duck Axe Wax? Great stuff not only for the strings but body and all parts. There's really no need for all the speed neck finish removal if you use a tiny amount after string changes. From the container: no wax, no abrasives, no silicones, no synthetics, no acids an organic highly refined cleaning, moisturizing, polishing formula. Contains petroleum distillates. This is the slickest stuff I've ever come into contact with. You learn to use only a tiny amount and then wipe it all off with a clean cloth or it's over kill. Great stuff if you use it sparingly. I haven't tried on varnish yet so I'm not sure about how that would work out. I do use it on the strings and fretboard of varnished instruments though.

[Bertram Henze]

Yeah, but metal polishes work by abrasion, not dissolution (well, there are a couple that work by redox reactions, but those aren't actually polishes).

Thinking about it, there might be some abrasion going on with Dunlop 65; that would explain why the strings keep looking so bright and shiny on the surface where the cleaning happens, while the off lenghts below the bridge and above the nut slowly turn to brown.

Talk to me when it keeps mandolin A strings sounding good.

Sorry, it hardly makes any difference on plain strings - it's the roundwound ones that need it.

Bertram is you Dr. Duck Axe Wax?

Exactly that one. I don't hardly ever use it on the wood finish, though, a dry cloth is sufficient there for me. It is great for reviving dirty old battered finishes that had no regular care for years, but that doesn't happen to my instruments any more.

[Ivan Kelsall]

From Hank - "This is the slickest stuff I've ever come into contact with ...". You've obviously never tried Deer guts ! (to para-phrase Mitch Jayne of The Dillards).
These products make you think about what they're 'actually doing' sometimes.Take a new set of strings - what's on there ?. Mostly the residues of the lubricant used in drawing the plain steel wire or wrapping the windings.That's usually some carbon lubricating compound,hence the black stuff that comes off when you first wipe them over (well i do !). After a few days of playing - what's on them now ?. Minute skin particles & oils from your skin. What does it need to remove those ?. They shouldn't need more than a good wipe over with a soft cotton cloth to remove them. The advantage that the string cleaners have,is that they also lubricate the strings,giving them a smoother,easier feel under the fingers something that wasn't even there with the new strings. After a good wipe over with a cotton cloth, i've used 3-In-One oil on the strings of my instruments for close to 50 years. Mainly because as well as making the stings easier under my fingers,the oil contains an anti-oxidant compound,which helps to stop them corroding so quickly. I've no doubt that (some) specially formulated cleaning fluids work very well,i've also no doubt that for what they do they're costly, & cheaper products will do the job just as well (IMHO),
Ivan

[Bertram Henze]

I imagine acid gooey stuff from my skin oozing in and hiding under/between the windings where no dry cloth ever reaches, contact-corroding the two metals of core and winding. I imagine the remedy to be some oily stuff that can ooze in there as well, creep under the goo, solve and displace it and protect the metal in much the same way that gun oil works. I fact I tried real gun oil once (Ballistol) and it worked but smelt awful; I like to think of Dr Duck's to do the same.

[hank]

Ivan I think my friend Wilson sent me my bottle(4oz.)over five years ago and it's still 3/4 full. Since it was a gift and it doesn't look like I'll ever need anymore the cost seems moot. I have no idea how Bertram can go thru so much of it, that was the reason I asked if it was Axe Wax. I guess he uses more of it like cleaning a gun with gun oil. I just use a tiny amount on a cloth on the strings and fingerboard. The clean cloth used afterward gets enough on it to lubricate the neck and whole instrument if you think it needs it. I try to use as little as possible, as I said before this stuff is crazy slick and penetrating so much so I keep the bottle in plastic food baggie to keep it contained. I think the reason for the dramatic change in Bertram's instrument is because this stuff not only cleans but penetrates(especially used heavily)under the strings at the nut and bridge as well getting rid of energy absorbing friction where ever it may be allowing the strings to vibrate more freely.

[Bertram Henze]

I have no idea how Bertram can go thru so much of it.

Approx. 1/4 tsp on the cloth over one index finger, applied to the strings, after each playing (i.e. once a day on average).

I think the reason for the dramatic change in Bertram's instrument is because this stuff not only cleans but penetrates(especially used heavily)under the strings at the nut and bridge as well getting rid of energy absorbing friction where ever it may be allowing the strings to vibrate more freely.

Well, my instrument has a zero fret, so this could only affect the saddle slots. Interesting - I'll call that the vibro-lube theory.

[greg_tsam]

I use Remington Rem Oil on my guns so spraying a little of that on a cloth should work too. It has teflon in it so don't know how my finish likes it.

[hank]

Bertram think of a wound string with some sort of energy absorbing paste on and between the windings and under and around the anchor points ability to transmit energy to the top compared to a clean well lubricated wound string that not only the pivot points are clear to move freely but also the windings themselves against each other and the strings core. Perhaps the nut and saddles effect are minimal compared to the windings themselves along the full length of the string. This is all conjecture on my part trying to understand the end results your having. I haven't ever noticed this effect on my stuff, I only use it to prevent hand and finger friction on the strings and neck and use probably less per string change than you do per day.

[Beanzy]

Wow! How long do you folks go between string changes?. I just swap them out every quarter and give them a quick rub with a dry cloth before and after playing. Not noticed any real need for anything more, but maybe I'm not paying enough attention.
Maybe I should look at sticking some of this goo on them?

But there is something enjoyable about sticking on new sets of strings.
I unwind & reuse the old ones for ribbing in tying fishing flies, but I've a hell of a lot of flies to catch up on now after a few string changes.

I have noticed that many new string sets are tarnished where they cross when wound in the pack, the single core ones (E&A) show it worse than the wound ones.
Is there something I could use to sort this out?, it looks a bit rubbish especially as the strings are meant to be all shiny and new.

[Bertram Henze]

...not only the pivot points are clear to move freely but also the windings themselves against each other and the strings core. Perhaps the nut and saddles effect are minimal compared to the windings themselves along the full length of the string.

That's what I think, too. The difference is at very high frequencies with string wavelengths less than a half inch, where every winding counts, with or without sticky plaster in between.

Wow! How long do you folks go between string changes?. I just swap them out every quarter...

I do that also, but without string cleaning I'd have to do it every two weeks.

I have noticed that many new string sets are tarnished where they cross when wound in the pack, the single core ones (E&A) show it worse than the wound ones.
Is there something I could use to sort this out?, it looks a bit rubbish especially as the strings are meant to be all shiny and new.

I've never seen that on the phosphor bronze or plain steel I use (D'Addario). If this happens to you across brands, where do you store your spare strings?

[Ivan Kelsall]

Beanzy - i change my strings once every quarter like you. I wipe them over with 3-In-One oil to get rid of the black 'stuff' that's on them. After that,i just wipe them over after i've been playing & only use oil if they get really tacky,
Ivan

[courses]

I've heard of bassists boiling thier strings occasionally - think Ill try it.....

[Beanzy]

I've never seen that on the phosphor bronze or plain steel I use (D'Addario). If this happens to you across brands, where do you store your spare strings?

They're like that when I open them up from the shop.

I was a bit loath to suggest that the shops were either rubbish about where they store stock, because so far I've found it from three different retailers. The alternative is that they're buying from dodgy suppliers...... and that's where my suspicions are centred at the moment.

[1-2-many]

They're like that when I open them up from the shop.

I've seen that in both newly purchased and sets that I've had laying around a while. Oxidation/Rust.
Things left to themselves will decay over time.
As for boiling strings, I am certain you do more damage by removing and reinstalling. I never trust a used string. My time is worth a new set.

[Buck]

If I'm playing a lot, or playing on stage, I change strings every two weeks. I can never remember cleaning strings and have never used any sort of string conditioner.

FWIW, EEZOX is the best smelling gun lubricant.

[greg_tsam]

If I'm playing a lot, or playing on stage, I change strings every two weeks. I can never remember cleaning strings and have never used any sort of string conditioner.

FWIW, EEZOX is the best smelling gun lubricant.

Two weeks was my usual when I played 9-11 hours of gigs per week plus whatever practice/jamming. Where I live is humid all year and strings corrode before they get out of the package. Elixirs seemed to be resistant even the non-coated plain strings which is odd but I don't question the magical music faeries when it works in my favor.

And, I think RemOil smells alright. Oily, like a mans supposed to smell like. Never heard of EEZOX but will try it when this supply runs out.

[steve V. johnson]

I use standard phosphor bronze strings for guitar & bouzouki, and J-74s for mandolin. I used the little canvas gun patch type things from John Pearse, called String Swipes. I remembered that I have a bunch of muslin canvas here and I read in a guitar forum that the solvent that Pearse Co. use is Caig De-Oxit, familiar to me from cleaning switches and contacts in recording studios. So I got some more De-Oxit, and I've been using it for a while. I find it works well if I use common 'rubbing' alcohol (without any lanolin added!) to clean the strings when I first put them on, then go over them again with the De-Oxit.

My hands / skin chemistry isn't very hard on my strings, but this routine of alcohol and De-Oxit extends the life and tone of my strings by 20-30%, and it's wonderfully restorative if I have to do outdoor gigs in high humidity.

YMWV, cheers,
stv