pinky or no pinky?

[shortymack]

Its been a great first week of playing and learning the mando for me, lots of retraining myself from years of guitar playing. When I play the guitar I use the pinky anchor method on my right hand and have been doing the same playing mandolin. Is this considered 'bad' technique and how do you guys mostly play?

[OldGus]

It's not a bad technique, do whatever works best for you. I think this technique works best with a pick guard. I think that's the main reason for a pick guard on a mandolin with an elevated fret board as far as I'm concerned and I prefer to have one for this reason. Although I have seen some scratched up mandolins with the elevated fret board and just wonder how they do it. That's bad technique!

[JEStanek]

Depending upon your finish, you could wear a hole through it. Try practicing without planting your pinky, it will be bad at first but you can develop a better right hand technique.

Jamie

[foldedpath]

I've gone through the pinky planting vs. non-planting thing for years with fingerstyle guitar before coming to mandolin, so I can relate to the question (as I'm sure other players here can).

On mandolin you can plant your pinky, but many mandolin players do more of a light "wrist plant" on the strings behind the bridge as a reference for picking position. As Mike Marshall says in the video linked below, "The fleshy part of the palm touches the bridge, ever so slightly."

Two caveats to that technique:

1) Don't let it lock your hand into one position, because there the mandolin is a small instrument and you'll get lots of tonal varation with moving your hand over various sweet spots on the strings. Many players move up over the end of the fretboard when doing multiple string tremelo.

2) If you have a very responsive mandolin, you may find that any downward force at all on the strings behind the bridge, the bridge itself, or pinky planting on the top, will reduce volume and tone. I can hear my mandolin open up and sing a little better when my hand is completely off the bridge (or strings behind the bridge), so I do try to keep my hand free-floating as much as possible. But sometimes I fall back on the strings behind the bridge as an anchor point for my hand. I can't seem to let go of that completely, but I'm working on it.

YMMV, depending on instrument, music genre, and just personal preference.

Here's that Mike Marshall "intro to mandolin" video, where he talks about the hand position. I think it's a good entry point for guitar players who pick up mandolin:

[Mike Snyder]

Plant the pinkie or no, very much individual preference. The best pickers in the world are in both camps. The plant, I think may be less destructive than the nail drag. Mea culpa. Very much an unconscious thing, but I tend to drag the nail tips of ring and pinkie.
Not so bad on a poly finish, probably deadly to spirit varnish. I'm very careful when I play someone elses instrument.

Come to think of it, Marshalls' mandolin looks alot worse than mine. Where'd he get that junker?

[OldSausage]

My advice is: do not plant your pinkie. It has nothing to do with the finish on your mandolin, and everything to do with taking control of your right hand technique, which is very different on mando from guitar IMHO. YMMV. Plenty of great players plant their pinkie, although a big majority do not. This is just my opinion.

[Mandobart]

Yes it can impact the top, depending on wood and finish. On my soft western redcedar topped instruments, nail/pinkie rubbing on the top started to wear pretty fast. I learned about loosely holding a spare pick in my right hand with the ring and pinkie fingers against the palm. This keeps my right hand in a good position. I don't suggest planting the pinkie as I can't get a good tremolo with my hand anchored.

[blueron]

One thing I can't stand in the appearance of an old mandolin is when the finish has been rubbed through by a player's pinky finger. I know it's irrational to be bothered by it, but I am. It's not 'honest' playing wear, it's unnecessary, sloppy playing wear. Yes, as I said, it's irrational.

Very good players who use this technique appear to be in the minority. I use that as an indication that it is at the very least not required for playing well. And while the difference in tone might be imperceptible, a finger resting on the top simply has to have a muting effect. Probably not enough effect to be heard, but maybe enough reason to avoid the technique.

I gave up on guitar when I took up mandolin, but I don't see why a planted pinky would help finger picking, when it reduces the number of available picking fingers by 25 percent


ron

[Astro]

I found this instruction by Pete MArtin on how to hold right and left hand and how to ergonomically hold the instrument very useful. You have to scroll to the bottom and hit the link " 9 additional videos" to start from the beginning.

All newbie's should check this out. Also go to the Cafe's Technique thread for great tips.

I'm a newbie too and just discovering all the goodies archived on this forum.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Fiddlema...n?blend=1&ob=0

[Martin Stevens]

I don't plant my pinky, but Adam Steffey and Sierra Hull do... so it can't be bad

[Bertram Henze]

I don't see why a planted pinky would help finger picking, when it reduces the number of available picking fingers by 25 percent

Losing one out of five - isn't that 20 percent?
But I'm not that good in math...

[norm351]

Sometimes I plant, sometimes I don't, to me it just depends on the song, so just do what YOU have to do, just play and enjoy, don't worry about other peoples style, play yours, and as has been said Steffey, Hull, and others, including Skaggs plant, I'm not gonna tell them they shouldn't, or that they are wrong, if you can play without it go for it I'd say it's better, but if you have to go for it...just play, and there is one other mandolin player that planted quite a bit, but I can't think of who it was....oh yeah, Bill Monroe, I will say it did ware his finish a little, but I don't think he cared,

[Paul Cowham]

Losing one out of five - isn't that 20 percent?
But I'm not that good in math...

but the thumb isn't a finger so I agree with 25% (having done the math(s))

Going back to topic, I used to plant but managed to get away from this which I have found to be useful, but as everyone says enough good players do plant that means that it is possible to play well and plant...

[Bertram Henze]

but the thumb isn't a finger

Well, blueron was talking about the available picking fingers; the thumb takes part in the picking, so I took the liberty of extending the classification a bit (I am better at OOA than at maths).
Anyway, I have a hard time imagining a fingerpick on a pinky (regards from Edward Scissorhands), so I myself plant the pinky when I fingerpick my OM (enough picking fingers left there, while those guitar players can't do at all without genetic engineering).

[Mike Snyder]

Picking without a thumb is no picknic. Fella in north Arkansas has engineered one out of aluminum and velcro and his Martin dred sounds good on melody or rhythm. I don't think he plants, although he may be a farmer. Sam Bush is a partial planter, I've noticed.
It's a non-issue, really. Make some music.

[blueron]

For the record, at least in my head I did get the mathematics correct. One out of four fingers = 25%

Not that it matters in the least, of course!


ron

[hank]

Even Mike Marshall deviates from what he teaches when the need arises. No one can get the kind of precision needed to play well if your picking hand is not able to get some sort of subconscious reference to its height above the strings. Many are able to do this almost entirely with the wrist and palm of the hand behind the bridge only brushing the pickie and ring finger when the wrist reference is lost. Some like mandobart's remark above find anchoring with pinkie for tremolo unhelpful where many only pinkie anchor when playing tremolo. Since most of this stuff is done subconsciously it becomes habit and is very difficult to correct if you find it's limiting you later. Because of this it's benificial to work on your wrist/hand anchor technique but don't feel like it's unthinkable to leave this position and use you fingers to guide you when needed.

[AlanN]

Plant Some Flowers By My Graveside
Just A Little Bunch Of Them
Makes No Difference What They Are, Dear
Since Your Hands Have Planted Them.

The dear departed Butch B. was a planter, at least on the tremble. Advice above is on target: Just Do It!

[shortymack]

Awesome responses so far, thanks a bunch! Sound advice on both ends of the discussion. I think I'm just going to do what feels and works best for me and that is planting. I've tried floating and it just feels wrong and as stated I cant really gauge my hand to string height like that. To me when I float my hand it feels like I'm hydroplaning with a wobbling wheel about to come loose. Im not worried about finish issues or anything like that. Its like having a pair of brand new stiff dark blue cardboard levis or ones that are washed worn and put away wet with some holes in em. Much more comfy. Just like an instrument, theyre made to be worn (or played) and not looked at IMO. Ive always said, my eyes are deaf and my ears are blind. You all are great, play on fellers (and ladies)!

[JeffD]

What is best is the flexibility to do either when the need arises. Some tunes, or parts of tunes, or back up options, are easier with a free floating hand. Other riffs and techniques benefit from some planting or brushing of the pinky.

The big issue, as I see it, is control over your right hand. Keep the options, so you can optimally feed the tune what it needs. What ever you do should be deliberate, and out of choices. Planting, or not planting, is only problematical if that is all you can do.

[bmac]

Planting a finger as a pivot is not necessarily "bad" technique but it is limiting. It suggests that all playing will be done within about 3" of the planted finger. there are those others who want the additional tonal range from playing very close to the bridge or on the fingerboard near the fretting fingers. You can play either way but to do one or the other because it is "easier" is selling yourself short and limiting your tonal range.

I believe planting is fairly common in bluegrass and less common in other styles. I am always interested in watching the right hand both on mandolin and banjo. I notice that some professionals do "plant" while others simply "brush" the pick guard or top very lightly but never"plant" the finger on the pick guard or banjo head.

I think to do "what is comfortable" is selling yourself short... If a kid with a tricycle said that, he would never learn to ride a two wheeler.

[mnosretep]

My advice is: do not plant your pinkie. It has nothing to do with the finish on your mandolin, and everything to do with taking control of your right hand technique.../snip/...

Ditto

[shortymack]

Heres my first attempt at playing, not quite a week so far, planted pinky and all. I will try to work on not planting and see where it goes but for now this is where I am at.

http://soundcloud.com/shortymack/flop-eared-mule

[Philphool]

Don't plant. The great pickers that plant are great 'in spite' of planting, not because of it.

[OldSausage]

Heres my first attempt at playing, not quite a week so far, planted pinky and all. I will try to work on not planting and see where it goes but for now this is where I am at.

http://soundcloud.com/shortymack/flop-eared-mule

That's very cool, especially for your first week. Of course I can't see what you're doing, but it sounds like you are hitting the strings very flat on with the pick, especially on the high E string. If you angle it slightly downward, so the leading edge tilts down, you will get a better tone - should be an easy upgrade. Always try to do what you can to darken the tone.