John Duffey's Playing Style

**AlanN** · Jul-11-2012, 5:55am

I met him just once, at the Waterloo Music festival in Stanhope, NJ, must have been '80 or so. The Scene were on break, I tentatively approached their rest area with my white-paint A-40 and sheepishly handed it to him. He put down his plastic cup long enough to whack it a few times and handed it back, I just slinked away.

Act IV is such a great record, with fantastic songs and arrangements. The one banjo number on there is Smokin Hickory, John's solo is very cool, in that he picks it just behind the changes to get a slippery groove. He was in his early 40's when that was recorded. But, he was doing unusual stuff even in the early Gent days. I remember a solo that was transcribed by John Baldry, where he got this flat 9 lick, on purpose. Who the heck picked a flat 9 lick back then? Certainly not Ol' Bill...

**jim simpson** · Jul-11-2012, 8:36am

Originally Posted by swampstomper

Well, remember that the CG first formed when Buzz Busby had a bad car wreck and Charlie Waller needed to get a band together to cover some gigs. Buzz was (is?) THE MAN on mando in 1950's DC, and when I listen to Duffy's tremelo, all I can think is, he's trying to get somewhere near Buzz' patented sound. Also, the "out of control" and "on the limb (twigs?)" playing certainly applies to Buzz. I have always thought of Duffy as a Buzz derivative. BTW the tabs in the Tottle book are great!! Mean Mother Blues (Scene), Girl Behind the Bar (CG) -- the latter has some major (minor) funk. And I agree about the Tennessee Blues piece... wow!

I believe Buzz passed away in the last 5 years? Buzz certainly was a wild mando player, playing his A without a strap.

I believe Willie summed up my impression of John's playing. I got to see John with the Scene many times and always enjoyed him as part of the whole package. Listen to his playing on "Lay Down Sally" to hear his Duffey-ism playing.

**dcoventry** · Jul-11-2012, 10:09am

JD's choices to play non-traditional songs was really remarkable and refreshing to me. Sweet Baby James, Sing Me BAck Home, Baby Blue, Midnight Hour, Lay Down Sally, After Midnight, Jamaica, Say you Will, Only a Hobo, What Goes On and others were a great nod to BG being a living art form with the capacity to grow, change and stay relevant.

There are always those that say BG is a very narrowly defined genre/execution/instrumentation, but JD thought a little differently. And he was as blue as BG gets, pants and all!

**Willie** · Jul-11-2012, 4:11pm

A story that John told me about was back in their early days with the Gents he got a call from a promoter in California and asked if they could come out there and play a festival show, he told John he only had 600 bucks and Johns reply was, "Which ONE of us do you want?"...In those days not much money was being paid for bluegrass acts and to travel to California wasn`t a good place to expect John to go to anyway because he just didn`t want to get into an airplane, a fear that he did get over after playing with the Scene....

Bob, as far as "The Eric Clapton" licks, John just used his name to describe his "rock and roll" style of playing, it is the only hot guitar player that he could think of at the time...It didn`t mean that he had copied Eric...

**bluegrasser78** · Jul-11-2012, 5:29pm

John was fantastic,,one of my favorites, if not #1 to me!,just listen to all the Gents stuff,his intros,fills,breaks...tasty stuff man,not to mention his singing be it lead or tenor,I've got all the recordings I believe and am a faithfull listener.....I heard a story from my uncle that Duffey was talkin with Jimmy Gudreau "pry not spelled right" but John said"that your a better mandolin player than me but I can sell it better" think about that...

**Mandolin Mick** · Jul-11-2012, 6:19pm

Anybody know if a tab for Duffey's mandolin work on "Sunrise" by the Country Gentlemen exists?

**re simmers** · Jul-11-2012, 6:33pm

The Scene's material and arrangements were, and still is first class. A class all their own, not traditional, not newgrass. Vocals have always been spectacular. I always assumed Duffey was the primary reason for all of it. ?

Bob

**Mandolin Mick** · Jul-11-2012, 7:34pm

While I'm waiting for somebody to post the tab ... I've figured out the beginning ...

**Mandolin Mick** · Jul-11-2012, 8:59pm

John & Mr. Bill

**AlanN** · Jul-12-2012, 5:54am

The SS sound was uniform, due to the band's staying-togetherness for years. You knew what to expect. When Starling left to be replaced by Rosenthal, the sound pretty much remained intact, although the added dimension of hot guitar was added and used to good measure. Act IV has some great moments. Another great record from that era is Old Dog, the band Phil was in with the Stockwell brothers. Phil played mandolin in that, very solid picker.

**AlanN** · Jul-12-2012, 12:56pm

Duffey was talkin with Jimmy Gudreau "pry not spelled right" but John said"that your a better mandolin player than me but I can sell it better"

...I love that...

**johnsoba** · Jul-14-2012, 1:11am

OK, I'm sorry to be negative here, but I feel that I must say that whenever he took a break, I couldn't wait for it to end. Yes, he "sold" it to audiences, but, in my opinion, even on the recordings, it just doesn't hold up over the years.

I'm generally more positive than this; in fact, I can't think of another pro player I just flat out don't like.

No accounting for my taste, I guess.

**Mandolin Mick** · Jul-14-2012, 10:06am

No question that he rubbed people the wrong way. The only negative things in Ralph Stanley's book are about John Duffey, although they have nothing to do with Duffey's music.

**Willie** · Jul-14-2012, 10:38am

As I stated earlier John was a different person off of the stage, on stage he wanted to be noticed and did things that made him stand out but off stage away from bluegrass he was like a hidden person, never did much to draw attention to himself....He made part of his living repairing instruments and one time I took an A-50 mandolin to him because I didn`t like the way it sounded and he played it and said there wasn`t a thing wrong with it and he could have took me for a lot of money by just keeping it for a few days and doing nothing except a few tweaks and charged me for the work that was never done but he just wasn`t that way....I know he took an old Gibson F-2 and converted it to an F-5 style and used a board from the steps of the old bar in Georgetown called The Cellar Door and carved a new top for it, the steps came from an old ship that came up the Potomac river during the Revoloution war, that board was over 100 years old and that was one of the loudest mandolins that I have ever heard....How much did he charge to do the work, I have heard $50....While he may have made a lot of people dislike him while playing he certainly didn`t do it away from the limelight....

Ralph Stanley couldn`t carry Johns mandolin case in my opinion....If Ralph didn`t care for Duffey because of his actions then he must have hated many other pickers like his own brother Carter and also Jimmy Martin , they were a lot worse than John....AMEN

Willie

**Mandolin Mick** · Jul-14-2012, 12:11pm

I didn't know John, but I've always enjoyed his mandolin work.

**bluegrasser78** · Jul-14-2012, 1:22pm

Originally Posted by Willie

As I stated earlier John was a different person off of the stage, on stage he wanted to be noticed and did things that made him stand out but off stage away from bluegrass he was like a hidden person, never did much to draw attention to himself....He made part of his living repairing instruments and one time I took an A-50 mandolin to him because I didn`t like the way it sounded and he played it and said there wasn`t a thing wrong with it and he could have took me for a lot of money by just keeping it for a few days and doing nothing except a few tweaks and charged me for the work that was never done but he just wasn`t that way....I know he took an old Gibson F-2 and converted it to an F-5 style and used a board from the steps of the old bar in Georgetown called The Cellar Door and carved a new top for it, the steps came from an old ship that came up the Potomac river during the Revoloution war, that board was over 100 years old and that was one of the loudest mandolins that I have ever heard....How much did he charge to do the work, I have heard $50....While he may have made a lot of people dislike him while playing he certainly didn`t do it away from the limelight....

Ralph Stanley couldn`t carry Johns mandolin case in my opinion....If Ralph didn`t care for Duffey because of his actions then he must have hated many other pickers like his own brother Carter and also Jimmy Martin , they were a lot worse than John....AMEN

Willie

Well said Willie!!!,,Everyone has their opinions and are entitled them,,I love his style,every note on the old gourd he hits I wait for the next,,,I'd love to takea whack at his re-done F-2,,never heard about that mandolin,?!?!?!? Does anyone know what the F-5 that he's playing on one of the cd covers around a mike,,Its in the white/blonde,early 60's?

**Timbofood** · Jul-14-2012, 5:19pm

I met John at Lexington and a friend had to have an emergency appendectomy. She had very much wanted to see the "Scene" but, since she could not be there, first thing after walking on stage he dedicated the show to her! What a cool guy!
As for musical style... I think, loose and almost about to crash fits it for me. Sartorial splendor..." the only award I ever got was from the State troopers!". The zipper front bowling shirts will be seared into my mind ever since.
I really miss him!

**re simmers** · Jul-14-2012, 8:57pm

Love Duffey or hate him, I think Duffey was able to get the attention of an audience. People would hang around to find out what he was going to play, sing or say. At festivals, people would stop talking if Duffey was talking between songs.

One thing for sure, if he were still around today in his late 70's, he would probably be banned from this forum with his responses to threads like this one.

Bob

**Willie** · Jul-15-2012, 4:06pm

BG-78.....There was some postings on here about the blonde F-5 that John was holding in that photo, I don`t remember what was said about it but I believe it was just borrowed for that picture....I have tried to contact the owner of Johns converted F-2 but can`t seem to find him or any info about him now days, I`ll keep looking and hope to find him some day....

Willie

**bluegrasser78** · Jul-15-2012, 4:50pm

Originally Posted by Willie

BG-78.....There was some postings on here about the blonde F-5 that John was holding in that photo, I don`t remember what was said about it but I believe it was just borrowed for that picture....I have tried to contact the owner of Johns converted F-2 but can`t seem to find him or any info about him now days, I`ll keep looking and hope to find him some day....

Willie

If ya would keep me posted,,my email is my name here with an added @yahoo.com,,I'd love to see pix of any mando John re-done,,my uncle Dick still has Johns'old F-7 conversion from the early 60's, Akira mentions it on his youtube videos ...it was on the album cover On the Road and more,,,Now thats a Great mandolin!

**ralph johansson** · Jul-16-2012, 5:35am

Originally Posted by Mandolin Mick

No question that he rubbed people the wrong way. The only negative things in Ralph Stanley's book are about John Duffey, although they have nothing to do with Duffey's music.

There's more, but only Duffey is mentioned by name.

**Buck** · Jul-17-2012, 12:08am

Not that I sound like either of them, but the two mandolin players that influenced me most were Bill Monroe and John Duffey. There's no one I'd rather play like more than Monroe and no one that I enjoy listening to more than Duffey.

Dr. Ralph is welcome to his opinion, but he has his own flaws - many more significant than Duffey's.

**greg_tsam** · Jul-17-2012, 10:21am

I've never been accused of sounding like Monroe and never learned all the set patterns, songs or licks.. I've been developing my own style (who doesn't) but would list Dave Peters, David Grisman and Kelly Lancaster as influences. Some of the things said of Duffey have been said of me. Like this one.

Originally Posted by harmonist34

Duffey's mando playing style can only be described as "slightly out of control" as far as I'm concerned. Love the guy, but his solos were exciting mainly because of the train wreck that seemed predestined for the next measure but never (or rarely ever, anyway) actually occurred.

I still train wreck sometimes but have gotten much better at converting them into tasteful endings. It's good to know there was someone much more popular and accomplished that also took the alternate route.

**ampig** · Jul-17-2012, 12:18pm

One of my favorite memories of JD was at a festival in Smthfield Va. The Dry Branch Fire Squad were on stage and John came running up from behind and put a pair of women's panties on Ron Thomason's head during a mandolin solo.

I don't think that any of the Seldom Scene's albums during John Duffey's tenure could hold a candle to their live performances. I don't think anyone can comprehend his true greatness unless they saw him live. He just had an energy and aura onstage.

**EarlG** · Jul-17-2012, 2:02pm

I never saw him live but he is probably my favorite mandolin picker. I love to watch his left hand fingers move.

To me, he makes unexpected changes in his solos that keep it interesting, not just great picking.