John Duffey's Playing Style

**Rick Albertson** · Jul-09-2012, 5:28pm

I attended at least a dozen Scene concerts... but all years before beginning to play mandolin. I'm wondering how best to describe John Duffey's mandolin playing. Did he pattern his style after someone else? How was his style different than Bill Monroe's etc.?

Are there any transcriptions (tab or notation) of Duffey's arrangements?

**bluegrasser78** · Jul-09-2012, 6:00pm

Originally Posted by Rick Albertson

I attended at least a dozen Scene concerts... but all years before beginning to play mandolin. I'm wondering how best to describe John Duffey's mandolin playing. Did he pattern his style after someone else? How was his style different than Bill Monroe's etc.?

Are there any transcriptions (tab or notation) of Duffey's arrangements?

Duffey is his own style my friend, One can hear that just listen to Monroe and Johns' stuff,,Johns is more jazzy,lively and improvy, KOOL

**Charles E.** · Jul-09-2012, 6:27pm

There is a brief profile and tab for two songs in Oak publications, "Bluegrass Mandolin", by Jack Tottle.
To Quote, "Though he speaks admiringly of several other players who preceded him, John showed a clear preference for the untried over the playing styles wich had already proven successful".

**re simmers** · Jul-09-2012, 6:48pm

I never thought Duffey sounded influenced by any other player, but I'm sure he was. However, when he played with the Scene his style was much more progressive than anything he did with the Gentlemen. The exception being "Tennessee Blues" which is traditional.....and spectacular.

Good topic. I would like to know who's mandolin playing influenced Duffey in the early days.

Bob

**Charles E.** · Jul-09-2012, 8:25pm

This should give you an idea how non traditional a player he was......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdBpB...eature=related

**Rick Albertson** · Jul-09-2012, 8:49pm

Great video... I actually posted it.

**harmonist34** · Jul-09-2012, 11:14pm

Duffey's mando playing style can only be described as "slightly out of control" as far as I'm concerned. Love the guy, but his solos were exciting mainly because of the train wreck that seemed predestined for the next measure but never (or rarely ever, anyway) actually occurred.

**AlanN** · Jul-10-2012, 6:54am

He did stuff nobody did, before or since. Some have used sloppy to describe. I never did. He was of the school of 'whatever works'. His solos on things like Make Me A Pallet and Sunrise were off the charts back in the day. He showed flashes of crosspicking and jazz. And he had a very good chop, driving and chordy.

MWN transcribed his solo from Mean Mother Blues, off Act II. Great solo.

**David Lewis** · Jul-10-2012, 8:06am

On the Homespun Sam Bush 'Getting into Lead Mandolin', Sam takes you through the kickoff to 'You left me alone', which he says is 'almost' exactly the same as Duffey's... it is remarkable stuff. (and yes, I think in my 10 posts here, I've mentioned sam 3 or 4 times... I' m a big admirer - what can I say?)

**dasspunk** · Jul-10-2012, 8:38am

Duffey is a personal fav... I might liken his style of mandolin playing to his style of pants. Look closely and you're bound to find any number of influences in either. That said, there could be only one of the former... and perhaps there should have been only one of the latter

He is missed...

**Alex Orr** · Jul-10-2012, 9:57am

Aaaargh!! I actually used to have some good info on this. About a year ago, Tom Mindte, a longtime DC bluegrass legend, did a show on WAMU's Bluegrasscountry.org where he talked with host Katy Daly about the history of bluegrass in DC. In addition to being a monstrously talented mandolin player and singer, Mindte runs a record label (Patuxent Records) and is known to possess an enormous collection of bluegrass recordings, including a number of quite rare pressings. I may be wrong, but I recall him speaking in some detail about how two styles of mandolin playing sort've developed in the area: a Baltimore style and a DC style. As I recall, he said that a lot of the guys in DC, and Duffy in particular, were strongly influenced by the fiddle playing of Scotty Stoneman, which sort've makes sense because Stoneman's playing is also frequently maniacal in the way it sounds equal parts sloppy and staggeringly talented.

I love the way Duff played with the early Gentleman. I find a lot of the stuff with the Scene less interesting, but then again, I also find the Scene less interesting. Too much bad contemporary folk music for my ear. I grew up a big fan of old punk stuff: The Clash, The Ramones, Television, X, Black Flag, Minor Threat, Husker Du, etc... as well as noise rock acts like Sonic Youth. To me, Duff's playing on a lot of the old Country Gentlemen recordings has a similar ragged edge and ferocity. I also hear a lot of that in Bill Monroe's playing, which is why they're two of my favorite mandolin players. Sadly, when I try to do that style, I just sound sloppy

There really is an art to making that aesthetic something special.

**AlanN** · Jul-10-2012, 10:24am

Interesting commentary, Alex. I actually come at it the opposite way - SS sound hipper to me. But, maybe not - the music of JD from the CG => SS is a progression; one existed before the other, in a differrent era along a continuum (as it had to). Really is no argument, both bands were great and JD played it the way he did within each musical grouping. His work with the CG was so different, there was little to compare it to. And his acid-grass stuff with the Scene wouldn't really have fit within the more folky CG.

Just my 2 centavos...

**Charley wild** · Jul-10-2012, 11:37am

Originally Posted by Alex Orr

Aaaargh!! I actually used to have some good info on this. About a year ago, Tom Mindte, a longtime DC bluegrass legend, did a show on WAMU's Bluegrasscountry.org where he talked with host Katy Daly about the history of bluegrass in DC. In addition to being a monstrously talented mandolin player and singer, Mindte runs a record label (Patuxent Records) and is known to possess an enormous collection of bluegrass recordings, including a number of quite rare pressings. I may be wrong, but I recall him speaking in some detail about how two styles of mandolin playing sort've developed in the area: a Baltimore style and a DC style. As I recall, he said that a lot of the guys in DC, and Duffy in particular, were strongly influenced by the fiddle playing of Scotty Stoneman, which sort've makes sense because Stoneman's playing is also frequently maniacal in the way it sounds equal parts sloppy and staggeringly talented.

I love the way Duff played with the early Gentleman. I find a lot of the stuff with the Scene less interesting, but then again, I also find the Scene less interesting. Too much bad contemporary folk music for my ear. I grew up a big fan of old punk stuff: The Clash, The Ramones, Television, X, Black Flag, Minor Threat, Husker Du, etc... as well as noise rock acts like Sonic Youth. To me, Duff's playing on a lot of the old Country Gentlemen recordings has a similar ragged edge and ferocity. I also hear a lot of that in Bill Monroe's playing, which is why they're two of my favorite mandolin players. Sadly, when I try to do that style, I just sound sloppy

There really is an art to making that aesthetic something special.

Good post, Alex! As I have mentioned many times here John was the first mandolin player I actually LISTENED to. I bought my first mandolin so I could learn John's solos on "These Men of God".
I feel the same way about the "Gentlemen" versus the "Scene". Great bands both but the early "Gentlemen" were and are far and away my preference. Once and a while John went over the top but usually he just wowed you. A great talent and I miss him!

**Willie** · Jul-10-2012, 12:37pm

I have to agree with Alan...John was a good friend of mine and he spoke many times to me about why his style of playing changed when he went with the Scene as opposed to the Gents....The Gents were a serious band on 99% of the songs that they did and the Scene did a lot of songs that were crossed over from other kinds of music, Duffey tried to throw in some Eric Clapton licks when they did the "rock" flavored songs and when they did songs that were spoofs at some of the most popular bluegrass songs such as some that Jimmy Martin made popular he just let himself go and played what ever he felt like doing....John was a master at knowing the complete neck of the mandolin and how to get everything he could out of it...

In his early days with the Gents he was smooth as silk and he often said he wanted to be remembered for his singing ability and not his mandolin playing....His time with the Scene was more for fun even though those are the times most people will remember John for....He could have been even a better mandolin player if he wanted to be but, as I said, his singing was what he loved doing mostly....John could copy and do most any style that was popular back in the early bluegrass days, tremolo, cross picking etc., he coud copy Monroe to a tee and even talk like Bill while doing it....

Willie

**Alex Orr** · Jul-10-2012, 2:29pm

Originally Posted by Willie

John was a good friend of mine and he spoke many times to me about why his style of playing changed when he went with the Scene as opposed to the Gents....

Willie, just to follow up on my possibly misremembered commentary from Tom... Did John ever talk about the influence of Scotty Stoneman? I know he made an impact on a load of DC pickers and fiddlers back in the day, but like I said, I'm not sure if I remembered exactly what Tom said on that show.

**Catfish Joe** · Jul-10-2012, 6:15pm

Good topic! I can't give a very decisive answer because I honestly don't know. However, I love the songs that he covered with Seldom Scene; very risky but they did them so well. I play guitar also and I'm a huge fan of the Grateful Dead, and his impromptu style reminds me a lot of Jerry's. Right when it sounds like he's going to lose it he hits those notes and brings it right back home; I love it!
- Joe

**j-hill** · Jul-10-2012, 7:44pm

Reading Mandolin World News from 1981, the author writes, "When asked how he prepares for a mandolin solo, he [John Duffey] replied, 'It gets worse if I think about t. I can only remember having to work out a solo once and that was on a gospel tune called Brother John. Mostly I do solos off the top of my head'"

**dcoventry** · Jul-10-2012, 8:17pm

Originally Posted by Catfish Joe

Good topic! I can't give a very decisive answer because I honestly don't know. However, I love the songs that he covered with Seldom Scene; very risky but they did them so well. I play guitar also and I'm a huge fan of the Grateful Dead, and his impromptu style reminds me a lot of Jerry's. Right when it sounds like he's going to lose it he hits those notes and brings it right back home; I love it!
- Joe

It's not the note you play now, but the next note you play that helps it make sense. That's an aspect of playing I am still working on.

FWIW, Garcia definitely wandered around a solo a bit, but usually resolved it quite well. Out on a limb? Definitely. Out in the twigs, usually!

**mandolirius** · Jul-10-2012, 8:38pm

Originally Posted by j-hill

Reading Mandolin World News from 1981, the author writes, "When asked how he prepares for a mandolin solo, he [John Duffey] replied, 'It gets worse if I think about t. I can only remember having to work out a solo once and that was on a gospel tune called Brother John. Mostly I do solos off the top of my head'"

Well that makes me feel better. I learned that solo once and, knowing that Duffey was mostly an "off the top of my head" player, recall being amazed he could improvise something like that.

John Duffey was the guy I really emulated in the beginning. Coming from rock and roll, I could relate to his style of playing. He opened up my ears to different ideas of how the mandolin could sound. Shortly after that the David Grisman Quintet appeared on the scene and an entire world of possibilities on the mandolin began to open up for me. I owe a lot to those two guys.

**re simmers** · Jul-10-2012, 8:52pm

Duffey's kickoff on The Old Home Town is great. He had some good breaks. But overall, I don't think his "Scene" style would have worked in any other band. The rock solid rhythm remained steady in spite of Duffey. Ben's fantastic banjo, Mike's reverbed dobro and Tom's bass were the perfect fit for Duffey.
The Eric Clapton cracks were Duffey-isms....jokes. Being a Clapton fanatic, I'm positive Duffey never played anything close to a Clapton lick.

Bob

**cobraman428** · Jul-10-2012, 9:17pm

In the youtube video as linked in post #5 above, did anyone notice the right arm band that Duffey has on?

**dcoventry** · Jul-10-2012, 9:19pm

I think it was really hot and he was sweating so he used that to help ease of playing so his arm didn't stick to the mando and/or muck the finish?

**mandopete** · Jul-10-2012, 9:19pm

FWIW, you can hear Duffey's old Gibson mandolin on Akira Otsuka's recording "First Tear". For a pretty beat up old mando, that thing sounds pretty good. Mr. Duffey must have left some mojo in it....

**dcoventry** · Jul-10-2012, 9:26pm

Date line: January 1992. The young deadhead sees an ad at the Great American Music Hall in SF for a band called Seldom Scene. The intrepid lad gets a ticket thinking the name sounded familiar.

He stands in line, get s a great table, all the better to TAPE THE SHOW!!. The band leaves a smoking crater on his mind, to be sure. The Scene played a whole slew of GD tunes! For example, Midnight Hour, Top of the World, Dark Hollow, Baby Blue, I know you Rider, and the Nirvana song In the Pines. Huh, what a cool bunch of guys.

So, this big ol' country hick was playing mandolin and just tearing into it. He sang BAby Blue as good as I've ever heard. Great pants and a sweet sense of humor. I really liked this Guy named Duffy.

I rode my bike home(never drink and drive folks!), woke up my soon to be wife and played the tape for her.

I said, "Honey, these guys are good. I wonder if many people know about them?"

Oh, to be young.

**swampstomper** · Jul-11-2012, 12:58am

Well, remember that the CG first formed when Buzz Busby had a bad car wreck and Charlie Waller needed to get a band together to cover some gigs. Buzz was (is?) THE MAN on mando in 1950's DC, and when I listen to Duffy's tremelo, all I can think is, he's trying to get somewhere near Buzz' patented sound. Also, the "out of control" and "on the limb (twigs?)" playing certainly applies to Buzz. I have always thought of Duffy as a Buzz derivative. BTW the tabs in the Tottle book are great!! Mean Mother Blues (Scene), Girl Behind the Bar (CG) -- the latter has some major (minor) funk. And I agree about the Tennessee Blues piece... wow!